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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

I took some pictures of birds today (1 Viewer)

well i've had plenty of practice due to my previous rifle shooting hobby (y)
Practice at holding your breath or practice at passing out ?? My passing out practice can generally start at 18:00ish on Friday but I do wake up for Monday morning. There maybe another reason for that though. 🍻🥂:D
 
However, modern top of the range sensors allow photographers to shoot at much higher shutter speeds even in poor light. The sort of shutter speeds where sharp images are more or less guaranteed even for people like myself who have such annoyances as a noticeable essential tremor. This is helped enormously by modern lightweight telephoto lenses such as Nikon's 500mm PF. I personally find tripods very limiting and they just get in the way of taking pictures.
I need to update my camera ☹️
 
I might have missed someone mentioning it but the quality of the lens could also be a factor. Did I just throw another curve into the discussion? Which has gotten a bit contentious by the way. I have taken pictures for personal use and professionally for over 50 years and will agree that a camera, supported by a tripod, monopod, or a tree for that matter, has a better chance of a clearer image. Remember I said "a better chance". Take into account all the other variables and you could talk about it for years. I carry a tripod in my photography back-pack and when I have the opportunity I use it to, for example, wait until that eagle in the nest turns to just the correct position in my 300mm lens for the picture I want. Otherwise it is hand held so I do not miss the chance.
 
Though I don't agree 100% with what, Mike has stated, sharp images can be obtained hand holding, but maybe not all the time if conditions don't allow.

Super-Tele's as in 500f4 / 600f4 are a pain in the backside to hand hold for a period of time out in the field, I know because I've done it, so when I bought my 500f4 I budgeted an extra £1000 for a big Gitzo and a Wimberley v2 because I new they would be needed for a large part of my photography, especially when camped in a hide for weeks on end.

I think Deb has made a good point that it can depend on the lens used, with modern, lighter lenses like the 150-600 I wouldn't hesitate to use one of those hand held and even more so a Nikon 500mm PF.

Each to their own I guess, but I'll finish with tripods are just another tool to help us take an image and I wouldn't be without mine.
 
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:rolleyes:
You seem to be rather angry about this which is a little puzzling. With modern equipment it is perfectly possible to get pictures which in real world terms are every bit as sharp as those taken using a tripod. In the days before digital imaging that would have been much harder as most pictures were taken at low iso to ensure maximum quality so would often require relatively low shutter speeds where a tripod would be useful.

However, modern top of the range sensors allow photographers to shoot at much higher shutter speeds even in poor light. The sort of shutter speeds where sharp images are more or less guaranteed even for people like myself who have such annoyances as a noticeable essential tremor. This is helped enormously by modern lightweight telephoto lenses such as Nikon's 500mm PF. I personally find tripods very limiting and they just get in the way of taking pictures. I like to be as mobile as possible and a tripod is just a nuisance much of the time.

If you are happy using a tripod all the time, great. But plenty of professional wildlife photographers no longer feel the need to do so all the time due to the advances that digital photography has brought. Personally I'm just an amateur naturalist who uses a camera to learn about the natural world but most of my photos, taken with lenses giving me 12 - 15x magnification, and greater with cropping, are good for A3 size prints even when I have cropped the original substantially.

I use a tripod for my scope because I use my scope for extended periods of viewing ranging from seconds to hours. Most of my photos though are taken using shutter speeds of 1/800th second or less which is rather different when it comes to sharpness. Your photos are nice although they are very small images posted on the web. Would they make good A3 prints? Probably. But so do plenty of my handheld shots. I'm struggling to see what your point is.
Did I say ALL the time? No, I did not. If you are happy with your pictures hand held, great, wonderful but don't delude yourself that they are as sharp as they might be using a tripod.. Theres a lot of beginners out there, even some on here that wonder why their images are not sharp. In most case's a tripod would help them achieve better images. What makes you think I'm angry?
 
For all of you anti tripoders, where were you offering your expert advice when several of us were helping someone understand why their images were so bad? Not one of you offered any advice to help there did you? Not one of you has mentioned that one of the major advantages of using a tripod is that the extra stability allows a SLOWER shutter speed. Thats where a tripod helps enormously. Many people don't have a camera that's tolerant of high ISO's which is the inevitable result of fast shutter speeds particularly in UK weather. Not everyone has the ability or inclination to use Post Processing software which can help with sharpening and noise reduction. Many people start by taking photographs at their bird feeder, an ideal situation to use a tripod. You 'experts' do what you please, I'll keep recommending the use of tripods thank you.
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on much of this.

I'll happily admit to not being an 'expert' but I do have nearly fifty years experience of taking photographs and much of my knowledge of the subject is underpinned by the eight years I spent working as a technician in a photographic laboratory dealing primarily with professional photographer clients, so I do know a little bit about it.

I'm also very much not an "anti tripoder", nor am I in any way "deluded", either about my photographs or anything else thank you. I'm extremely critical of my own photographs.

For a complete beginner I would suggest the most useful tools would probably be a couple of good books. One would ideally be a pretty basic one about digital photography generally which explains everything from scratch, and also explains why, due to the technical limitations of the photographic process, the camera very often lies, or at least does not see the world in the same way that our brains do. The second book would ideally be written by a wildlife photographer, preferably one who is an expert naturalist first and a photographer second.

I think understanding the technical limitations of the photographic process fully is the one thing that will greatly improve the pictures of most beginners, in particular understanding why setting their camera on auto everything isn't really a good idea. A tripod might be helpful during this process as it will enable the photographer to keep the camera on the same subject whilst experimenting. This and many other websites can be useful for this learning process but can also be a bit problematical because everyone chips in with their own pet ideas and there is no logical structure to it.

One thing I think that is certain is that for the vast majority of people, buying a high tech camera of any sort with a long lens and plonking it on a tripod isn't going to turn them into a wildlife photographer or even necessarily enable them to take sharp photographs. That's not to say people are stupid. It's just to acknowledge that the image making process is a rather technical one, something that both enables and limits what can be achieved, and understanding the limits is probably the most useful thing a beginner can learn.

Once a budding photographer understands the limits of the process then they can decide for themselves whether or not they really need a tripod for what they want to achieve. And I would suggest for many uses including much long lens wildlife photography many people will realise that they don't actually need a tripod except in a few very specific circumstances. If they want to go home and pixel peep they might find that pictures taken using a tripod are sharper if their technique is good and their tripod really is up to stabilising a long, high magnification lens, but in many cases they won't because the issues they are having are primarily due to things other than camera stability.

So, just to be clear, I'm not anti-tripod and I'm not an expert. The above is obviously just my opinion based on my own long experience. What I am confident about though is that, except in a few specific circumstances, sticking my camera on a tripod isn't going to produce pictures that are sharper in real world terms than what I already get. And I'll happily keep leaving my own tripod out of the equation because most of the time it's just clutter that gets in the way.

Edited to add - (Just to add a final note. I tend to judge sharpness based on what I see full sized on my large monitor or A3 sized prints, not what I see on small downsized web images).
 
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One thing I think that is certain is that for the vast majority of people, buying a high tech camera of any sort with a long lens and plonking it on a tripod isn't going to turn them into a wildlife photographer or even necessarily enable them to take sharp photographs. That's not to say people are stupid. It's just to acknowledge that the image making process is a rather technical one, something that both enables and limits what can be achieved, and understanding the limits is probably the most useful thing a beginner can learn.
That is very true, Andrea...long lens technique takes time to master, especially when you are using a tripod with a very fluid gimbal, I've seen so many "All The Gear And No Idea" types with all the latest, high end cameras and 600f4's, blasting away at 12 fps and wondering why they can't take a sharp shot.
 
Just seeing what my photos look like on here.
The Reed Bunting was1/1600 and probably leaning on a fence post with good light.
The Hare was 1/2000 and bad light no tripod.
The Dunnock was 1/2000 and good light no tripod.
I need to have high speeds because of tremors combined with subjects that just will not stand still.
D500 +500mmPF, if I added a tripod the resultant shakes from carrying it would make photography impossible at any speed.
 

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It’s always been my impression that one of the main goals of a forum such as this is to offer advice and help to beginners and those asking questions rather than try to impress readers about how smart or eloquent you are or just to beat boredom by being contentious. I know what I’ve been trying to do. Seem that’s not the case here. I ask again, where were you when we were helping a member recently?

As the recently retired CEO of a company specializing in the design and development of control systems for the precision optical and laser inspection and measurement of Aerospace and Automotive components, I know a thing or two about stability. I can assure you and anyone reading that biologically speaking the human body is not a platform to achieve precise consistent results. It has always been my contention and experience that photographs taken on tripod will always be sharper and give more consistent results than hand held.

I’m certainly not suggesting that a tripod is essential for every scenario, far from it. For the beginner with an entry level camera taking photo’s in the back yard at a feeder, a tripod will vastly improve their keeper rate and keep their interest level rather than giving it up as a task too difficult. Tripods are essential for many other areas of photography not just birding; Macro, HDR’s, Panorama’s (yes I know you can do them Hand Held, but try stitching them later), Astro, (try taking a Milky Way shot with a 15 second exposure).

As for professionals giving up tripods, I would suggest you read the essential equipment list for Wildlife Photographic Tours led by those very same professionals.

Andrea, I’ve been a birder for ever and I’ve been taking photographs since 1963 and I still have that Kodak camera and I can assure you that my photographs displayed on my iMac are quite sharp thank you and print out lovely at 13x19 inches.

These were both cropped down from 8256 x 5504 to 1600 x 1200 pixels and are JPG's converted from the NEF's without any processing, on a tripod of course.
 

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“To tripod, or not to tripod? That is the question—Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The shakes and rattles of outrageous fortune with a handheld camera, Or to take three legs against a sea of troubles, And, by opposing, end them?”
:unsure:
 
and not one of them was hand held. Each and every one was on a tripod. :rolleyes:

All on a Tripod.
Hello, Mike,
Great photos-I think all the more impressive for being on a tripod - easier for me to track them hand - held. Be interesting to know what lense (s) you use. I am primarily a birder - for the last 48 years - taking the odd photos for the record but also trying to get some good shots where I can. Contemplating a proper telephoto for the Nikon D850 for birds ( usually take landscape and people and churches) and will probably opt for the 300 PF f4 and a TC1.4 as can’t afford the 500 f5.6! On the whole I have found that the D850 with good glass can take a great deal of enlargement / cropping of images, especially when publication of photos is not an aim! The modern f4 lenses even with teleconverters give good results - bearing in mind the image size is about the same as 8 or 10 times binos - and are light. The key thing is not to stop enjoying watching the birds by worrying about the gear or the need to get the photos no matter what. Just been watching Spoonbills, Firecrest, and stunning views of Marsh Harrier on the Isle of Wight - camera and superb Nikon 70-200 FL left in the car - so just revelled in the views. I suppose it comes down to the purpose of the day - try to take good photos or just try to get good views. Not always easy to do both - and I’m starting at 63 to think how much gear should I lug around!! Still, good photos, whatever! Keep it up! Steve
 
Hello, Mike,
Great photos-I think all the more impressive for being on a tripod - easier for me to track them hand - held. Be interesting to know what lense (s) you use. I am primarily a birder - for the last 48 years - taking the odd photos for the record but also trying to get some good shots where I can. Contemplating a proper telephoto for the Nikon D850 for birds ( usually take landscape and people and churches) and will probably opt for the 300 PF f4 and a TC1.4 as can’t afford the 500 f5.6! On the whole I have found that the D850 with good glass can take a great deal of enlargement / cropping of images, especially when publication of photos is not an aim! The modern f4 lenses even with teleconverters give good results - bearing in mind the image size is about the same as 8 or 10 times binos - and are light. The key thing is not to stop enjoying watching the birds by worrying about the gear or the need to get the photos no matter what. Just been watching Spoonbills, Firecrest, and stunning views of Marsh Harrier on the Isle of Wight - camera and superb Nikon 70-200 FL left in the car - so just revelled in the views. I suppose it comes down to the purpose of the day - try to take good photos or just try to get good views. Not always easy to do both - and I’m starting at 63 to think how much gear should I lug around!! Still, good photos, whatever! Keep it up! Steve
Photographs such as those are not at all difficult in setup locations. Walking around with a big lens and trying to get decent shots is for the birds in my opinion. My method is to bring the birds to me in a situation where I control the lighting, the perches, pretty much everything. It helps if the birds are already around of course. Alan Murphy a British guy living in Texas is a master at setup manipulation. The vast majority of his covers were from setup locations. If I were anywhere near as good as Alan I would be very happy. I'm still working on it.

Alan Murphy Magazine Covers

The 500PF is pretty much what I use for birds these days though the 300PF can come in handy as well. The D850 is a superb camera and I had one when it first came out. I sold it however to go full Mirrorless with the Z6 and Z7, I find the whole Mirrorless concept to be far easier to use being smaller and lighter. The thing that really strikes home is the live histogram all the time, thru the viewfinder or the back LCD, it's a true WYSIWG situation (except if your flash batteries are dying). The Z7 has pretty much the same sensor as the D850 of course. I do take hand held pictures all the time, butterflies and moths in particular, birds in flight as well as harassing the cats at home. With high end cameras you can take 1/8000 second shots at very high ISO's, use Topaz DeNoise AI to bring down the noise levels to acceptable levels but not everyone has such high end devices. Many people struggle with camera's that can't handle high ISO's and this is where tripods help enormously by allowing much lower shutter speeds and lower ISO values. Thats what some people are missing with tripods. If they'd used a Nikon D200 where anything above ISO 400 was a waste of time they might think again about tripods. I am a birder as well as a strictly amateur photographer, with the Covid situation I am taking more photographs from my back yard instead of birding at Barnegat Lighthouse for the Harlequins for instance which where I would be otherwise at this time of year. The first migrants are starting to appear so it won't be long before the warblers start appearing in my yard.
 
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