abirdingguy
Well-known member
You could considering moving the 3 Hawaiian E birds to A1 or A2. I don't think many still hold hope for them.
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Inaccessible bird species (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Maffong
- Start date
jurek
Well-known member
After clicking several links, one gets to the list of species which have no photos on Ebird. About half are extinct, but the others are a fairly good list of inaccessible bird species.
125 non-extinct species (the status of some is disputed) have no media at all; the most distinctive of those are white-eyes and kingfishers of Indonesia, PNG and the Pacific (most others require at least some specialist knowledge)
EDIT: a handy shortlist of those that lend themselves to grassroots efforts most easily (each threesome sorted from most to least endangered):
* white-eyes:
* kingfishers:
EDIT 2: They're marked by '-2' in the file below:
docs.google.com
(you'll see I'm not a very sophisticated Excel/Google Sheets user)
Half of the above six already have a few observations without media.
EDIT: a handy shortlist of those that lend themselves to grassroots efforts most easily (each threesome sorted from most to least endangered):
* white-eyes:
* kingfishers:
EDIT 2: They're marked by '-2' in the file below:
Macaulay-Library-Targets-Aug-2023
ML Media Totals English Common Name,Scientific Name,ML Photo Total,ML Audio Total,ML Video Total,Taxonomic Sort,Family,Extinct? 5595,Common Ostrich,Struthio camelus,5541,0,56,2,5596,Struthionidae (Ostriches),0 572,Somali Ostrich,Struthio molybdophanes,562,0,12,7,573,Struthionidae (Ostriches),0 3841
Half of the above six already have a few observations without media.
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Maffong
Well-known member
I have reworked the sheet and I'm quite happy with it.
All your feedback has been implemented. I would love to hear if anyone finds errors or missing species.
All your feedback has been implemented. I would love to hear if anyone finds errors or missing species.
simmojunior
Well-known member
Nice one. The Tacarcuna Wood Quail should be category D1 rather than E1. Apparently they are common if you get up there but it's very unsafe. It is much harder to get there than say Myanmar. Tacarcuna Warbler and Tacarcuna Tapaculo need adding. I think Tacarcuna Chlorospingus is gettable at Cerro Chucanti, which is safe and occasionally visited by tour companies.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I saw it at Cerro Azul about 10 years ago but I seem to recall hearing that it either no longer occurs or is much harder these days?
Also saw it there in 2014.
simmojunior
Well-known member
It was last recorded on ebird in 2022. When I was in Panama, it wad not on my radar but I only had 2/3 of a day at Cerro Azul. Because access is tricky, there are probably a lot of overgrown trails that are rarely explored.
Maffong
Well-known member
Doesn't fit the "10 or less observations in ebird". If i added all species without pictures in the last five years, I'd have to add like 500 more species...
I saw it at Cerro Chucanti in February.
temmie
Well-known member
This is quite a bit different: It's a highly desired target bird on a popular itinerary, and guides in Ranomafana (about the only place on the birding circuit the bird is seen regularly) told me they haven't seen it themselves for >5 years.
So this isn't a matter of a bird in a place where people don't go often. It's a matter of no evidence-based sightings in 5 years while people target the bird, and the noise on ebird is only hiding that reality.
About the ebird lists, I can easily scrutinize them (I only take lists > October 2018 as this is the last time a list with picture evidence is on ebird: https://ebird.org/checklist/S116067155 ) :
https://ebird.org/checklist/S156506615 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S156506096 are lifelists from the whole country and most probably spanning more than a decade. They are recently entered in ebird but it's clear the date (and area) used for this list is not relevant / to be evaluated when trying to look for YB Sunbird-asity sightings.
https://ebird.org/checklist/S97957982 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S97957809 (both Marojejy) and https://ebird.org/checklist/S125952586 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S125952204 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S125952013 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S125937560 (all Andohahela) are by Tahiry Legrand. I am inclined to believe that these are YB Sunbird Asity just by the credentials and the areas (a researcher, going to places off the regular birding circuit). But even if so, those 6 sightings can only be used to argue that the bird is very rarely encountered.
https://ebird.org/checklist/S135659660, https://ebird.org/checklist/S49474657, https://ebird.org/checklist/S115783825 and https://ebird.org/checklist/S150471910 : The Perinet / lower Mantadia / Iaroka forests were never known to hold YB S Asity, at least not in accessible places (they are probably present more North in Mantadia, and they are maybe maybe present in Iaroka). Those areas are very, very heavily birded by very experienced guides. Only the last list mentions pictures were taken, so I leave this one open until the pictures show up. It's easy to mis ID YB S asity (and switch with Common S Asity), so I am still skeptic.
last, Ranomafana:
https://ebird.org/checklist/S154138522 no pictures, no description.
https://ebird.org/checklist/S152370941 no pictures, no description.
https://ebird.org/checklist/S78089875 no pictures, no description.
https://ebird.org/checklist/S152279258 no pictures, but in the description, pictures are mentioned. I am very curious as this was on a RJ trip so I would expect some more expertise (no stringing), and I leave this one open until pictures show up.
So what do we have, in 5 years?
We have 3 people with sightings (and that's 8 lists in total) that I would consider having any chance of being the real deal, as 2 people mention they have pictures (although those are not uploaded). So I give them the benefit of doubt, for now. But something (the little devil on my shoulder) tells me that it's a bit strange that noone of the big tour companies, nor credible / well-known birders have found the bird in the last 5 years. It's only those that you can't check (no visible profile on ebird) and aren't known in world birding, that claim the bird...
6 sightings by a researcher going way off the beaten track. No pictures of those either, but I tend to believe those sightings. But those sightings only strengthen the argument that the bird is "Technically accessible, but very rarely encountered".
I do hope that Tahiry's sightings are true (as much as I hope the sightings of the ones saying they took pictures are true), because if those aren't true, YB Sunbird Asity could be technically off the map for >5 years, which isn't very encouraging (as in my case, it's one of 4 endemics species I haven't seen in Madagascar).
Maffong
Well-known member
I was pointed to this website, which has a very similar scope as my list.
They use a few different starting definitions, for example they don't use IOC but a combination of BirdLife and ebird/Clements.
Also their defintion of a 'lost species' is broader compared to mine, as I consider something lost that has no credible report in the last 20 years, and they consider it lost if there's no tangible evidence (photos, audio, etc) in the last 10 years.
Anyways, here's how they compare:
Of the 135 species they list, 17 are not considered species by IOC 13.2 (Black-naped Pheasan-Pigeon, Cebu Brown-Dove, Archbold's Owlet-Nightjar, Vilcabamba Inca, Guanacaste Hummingbird, Chestnut Owlet, Plain-backed Kingfisher, Togo Yellow-billed Barbet, White-chested Tinkerbird, Creamy-breasted Fig-parrot, Coxen's Fig-parrot, Sinú Parakeet, Irrawaddy Broadbill, White-tailed Tityra, Lendu Crombec, Bougainville Thrush, Upemba Masked Weaver), four of those not even as subspecies (highlighted in italic above).
Of the remaining 118 species I list 64 as A2, which is my category for 'lost birds', plus Mangareva Kingfisher (apparently not recognized by either ebird nor BLI) and the following five species, which have gone missing very recently: Stresemann's Bristlefront, Javan Green Magpie, Bahama Nuthatch, Javan Pied Myna, Rufous-headed Robin (this last one should probably be deleted).
The remainder 54 species have been placed in different categories and might require reclassification:
B to A2? (n=4): Mountain Starling, Vilcabamba Brushfinch, White-faced Whitestart, Guaiquinima Whitestart
D1 to A2? (n=12): Sulu Bleeding-heart, Yellow-crested Helmetshrike, Grauer's Cuckooshrike, Ash's Lark, Obbia Lark, Prigogine's Greenbul, Black-tailed Cisticola, Kabobo Apalis, Chapin's Babbler, Prigogine's Double-collared Sunbird, Yellow-legged Weaver, Black-lored Waxbill
E to A2? (n=27): Bare-legged Swiftlet, Three-toed Swiftlet, New Britain Bronzewing, Purple-winged Ground Dove, Mayr's Forest Rail, Worcester's Buttonquail, Slaty-mantled Goshawk, New Britain Goshawk, New Britain Sparrowhawk, Manus Masked Owl, Manus Dwarf Kingfisher, White-naped Lory, Rio de Janeiro Antwren, Golden-fronted Bowerbird, Wattled Smoky Honeyeater, Brass's Friarbird, Papuan Whipbird, Mussau Triller, Bronze Parotia, Sharpe's Lark, Guadalcanal Thicketbird, Bougainville Thicketbird, Sassi's Olive Greenbul, Rufous-breasted Blue Flycatcher, Bates's Weaver, Jambandu Indigobird, Carrizal Seedeater
The following have been observed recently, so they definitley don't belong in A2 (n=6): Santa Marta Sabrewing, Mayr's Honeyeater, Gilliard's Honeyeater, Long-billed Bush Warbler, Dusky Tetraka, Kangean Tit-Babbler
The only ones I seem to have missed are Black-fronted Fig-Parrot, Biak Myzomela, Long-billed Myzomela, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike and Rufous Monarch, all of which have recent observations, though without supporting evidence.
They use a few different starting definitions, for example they don't use IOC but a combination of BirdLife and ebird/Clements.
Also their defintion of a 'lost species' is broader compared to mine, as I consider something lost that has no credible report in the last 20 years, and they consider it lost if there's no tangible evidence (photos, audio, etc) in the last 10 years.
Anyways, here's how they compare:
Of the 135 species they list, 17 are not considered species by IOC 13.2 (Black-naped Pheasan-Pigeon, Cebu Brown-Dove, Archbold's Owlet-Nightjar, Vilcabamba Inca, Guanacaste Hummingbird, Chestnut Owlet, Plain-backed Kingfisher, Togo Yellow-billed Barbet, White-chested Tinkerbird, Creamy-breasted Fig-parrot, Coxen's Fig-parrot, Sinú Parakeet, Irrawaddy Broadbill, White-tailed Tityra, Lendu Crombec, Bougainville Thrush, Upemba Masked Weaver), four of those not even as subspecies (highlighted in italic above).
Of the remaining 118 species I list 64 as A2, which is my category for 'lost birds', plus Mangareva Kingfisher (apparently not recognized by either ebird nor BLI) and the following five species, which have gone missing very recently: Stresemann's Bristlefront, Javan Green Magpie, Bahama Nuthatch, Javan Pied Myna, Rufous-headed Robin (this last one should probably be deleted).
The remainder 54 species have been placed in different categories and might require reclassification:
B to A2? (n=4): Mountain Starling, Vilcabamba Brushfinch, White-faced Whitestart, Guaiquinima Whitestart
D1 to A2? (n=12): Sulu Bleeding-heart, Yellow-crested Helmetshrike, Grauer's Cuckooshrike, Ash's Lark, Obbia Lark, Prigogine's Greenbul, Black-tailed Cisticola, Kabobo Apalis, Chapin's Babbler, Prigogine's Double-collared Sunbird, Yellow-legged Weaver, Black-lored Waxbill
E to A2? (n=27): Bare-legged Swiftlet, Three-toed Swiftlet, New Britain Bronzewing, Purple-winged Ground Dove, Mayr's Forest Rail, Worcester's Buttonquail, Slaty-mantled Goshawk, New Britain Goshawk, New Britain Sparrowhawk, Manus Masked Owl, Manus Dwarf Kingfisher, White-naped Lory, Rio de Janeiro Antwren, Golden-fronted Bowerbird, Wattled Smoky Honeyeater, Brass's Friarbird, Papuan Whipbird, Mussau Triller, Bronze Parotia, Sharpe's Lark, Guadalcanal Thicketbird, Bougainville Thicketbird, Sassi's Olive Greenbul, Rufous-breasted Blue Flycatcher, Bates's Weaver, Jambandu Indigobird, Carrizal Seedeater
The following have been observed recently, so they definitley don't belong in A2 (n=6): Santa Marta Sabrewing, Mayr's Honeyeater, Gilliard's Honeyeater, Long-billed Bush Warbler, Dusky Tetraka, Kangean Tit-Babbler
The only ones I seem to have missed are Black-fronted Fig-Parrot, Biak Myzomela, Long-billed Myzomela, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike and Rufous Monarch, all of which have recent observations, though without supporting evidence.
Maffong
Well-known member
It's not that I don't believe the bird is very good contender for the list, it's that it doesn't seem to fit in any of the categories I developped. i try to stick to them, because otherwise I'd have to individually check hundreds of species. The Sunbird-asity has apparently been seen recently (as a matter of fact just yesterday!), so it doesn't fit into cat. A. There's no permit required to get to Madagascar (doesn't fit C), there are no Travel warnings in place (doesn't fit D) and there are waaay too many observations on ebird to qualify for E.
Perhaps it might fit into B, where self-organized expeditions are required, but for now there are still occasional observations in accessible areas. There are many low density or "invisible" species that are super hard to find, but these are not within the scope of this list, otherwise I'd have to add a bunch of Ground-Cuckoos, Tinamous, etc.
Perhaps I could redefine cat. E in a later stage to incorporate such info, but for now I'll stick to it, as I want to keep it as comprehensible as possible.
temmie
Well-known member
You haven't read my post (as I have refuted all of the bold parts in your answer, in my post, with good arguments).
It hasn't been seen yesterday, and there are less than 10 checklists on ebird that can be considered either trustable or have the potential to provide evidence (while they haven't until now, one must add). There aren't observations in accessible areas, and if they were, the guides at those sites wouldn't say they haven't seen it in 5 years.
Any Ground-cuckoo is findable these days (and has been found and photographed in the last 2-3 years by people targeting it), as is any Tinamou, so that's not even an argument.
It doesn't even fit into B, as (and this is an open question) there is, AFAIK, no good place to even try a self-organized expedition (if there is, let me know, I'm seriously interested). If this bird doesn't fit in "Technically accessible, but very rarely encountered", I don't understand what would fit in this category.
PS: Chestnut-headed Nunlet is at Manacapuru, which is an hour from Manaus (regular flights from e.g. Miami), and has been photographed in 4 different months this year and has been seen by tour groups. I feel this one is, as per your list "currently" more accessible than many birds that are technically accessible, but far less, and not on your list (like e.g. Red-billed Ground-cuckoo). This can ofcourse be discussed ad nauseam and the list will always be dynamic, but then again, that's what would be the most interesting (the dynamics of the list).
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Maffong
Well-known member
I have to admit, that I didn't check every single of the checklists you provided. Sorry about that. You're right that yesterday's checklists need to be flagged as they are for life list-building. Nevertheless, ebird stats tell me that there are 152 accepted records of the YBSA, more than 15x more than the threshold used in my definition. I want the results to be objectively verifiable by anyone, not just those with special knowledge. I don't want to make any exceptions from the rule, as that would render the list unverifiable.
The current process is to download the ebird stats (or in my case someone does that for you), then one sets the threshold at 10 observations and everything else is irrelevant. I can't possibly check the numbers for each and every species that exists, therefore I will stick to official ebird stats, as flawed as they might be. If I don't do that, then this list will never get to a final version, as I'll never know when it's finally completed.
I could open a new category F, for birds that really should be on this list, but aren't. However, this list would be entirely dependent on information from others and I could never be sure if it's completed or not.
The report from October 14th 2023 with Rockjumper leaves little doubt about identity, thus I have to believe the species is available at an accessible site. If it isn't , one could still follow up on the reports by Tahiry Langrand. From your comment above, I gathered that these sites are very remote and therefore might require expeditions, though I have to admit that term isn't as well defined as I would like it. So either the species requires expeditions (-> cat. B) or it's readily accessible and then beyond the scope of this list.
I completely agree on the Nunlet. It and a few others should not be on the list. I have no idea how the discrepancy between number of observations on the species page and on the species map can be explained. However, for some weird reason ebird tells me that it has only 9 observations, therefore it will stay on the list for now as it fits the current definition of category E and I will not delve into each and every ebird checklist there is.
temmie
Well-known member
Fair enough and, as I haven't said so before, huge thanks for compiling the list.
I know this kind of lists (especially those without too much info) are hard to compile / fine-tune.
But whatever may be on the list, I hope you will update it every now and then.
Some species (like the Sunbird-asity) could unfortunately make their way to the list because they are harder and harder to see, while others will be hopefully be seen more frequently. Unfortunately, many of the birds on the list won't be seen anymore, by anyone...
I know this kind of lists (especially those without too much info) are hard to compile / fine-tune.
But whatever may be on the list, I hope you will update it every now and then.
Some species (like the Sunbird-asity) could unfortunately make their way to the list because they are harder and harder to see, while others will be hopefully be seen more frequently. Unfortunately, many of the birds on the list won't be seen anymore, by anyone...
simmojunior
Well-known member
Breiner Tarazona is planning to organise treks for the Santa Marta Sabrewing so I think this one will become accessible. It is apparently being seen regularly in the same place
temmie
Well-known member
I hope so, but then again, as long as there aren't any alternative places (there are no stake outs at the moment, and it isn't even known where best to look for the bird), it could fit in the list.
