Is this Mountain Chiffchaff, from Kuwait? (1 Viewer)

[alsirhan]

This post was originally posted on rare birds information.
Hi all,

I think we may be approaching the final stages of identification of these birds, we need confirmation from someone who has experience with Mountain [Caucasian] Chiffchaffs Phylloscopus S. lorenzii I got my RememBird on 17/12/2007 and on 18/12/2007 went to three different sites and recorded calls of these birds. The first photographs no. 7286 was caught of a bird calling and its sonogram is labeled bird_6. From another site I got sonogram for bird_2. I have recorded 6 calls from different birds from 3 sites all were similar rising then droping quickly. For comparison I have attached a sonogram of a bird of tristris subpecies recorded from India by Hannu Jannes (from BWPi).
The last photograph was of a bird photographed at same site as bird 7286 but nine minutes later, I am not sure if it is a diffrent bird.
Now comparing sonograms of these birds with ssp. tristis:
These birds have their calls start at c. 4.2KHz to reach up to c. 5.2kHz then drop to 4kHz.
ssp. tristis their call almost flat starts from 4.1kHz then rise to c.4.2kHz then drop to 3.9 kHz. So our birds are not ssp. tristis they could however be Mountain [Caucasian] Chiffchaffs Phylloscopus S. lorenzii.
Any thoughts or elaboration are much appreciated.

 

[alsirhan]

Another photograph of the bird no.7409 that shows the underarm pit, and added sound files of bird_2 and bird_6.

The second and third photographs were taken in Kuwait on 3/12/2007.

Alsirhan

 

[CAU]

I have never seen a Mountain Chiffchaff, so my thoughts are probably not of great value, but in the Collins bird guide it is mentioned, that Mountain Chiffchaff should lack green tones completely on the wings. Don't know how it should be interpreted, but I would say that the edges of the remiges and wing coverts look greenish in the pictures. Also Mountain Chiffchaffs are usually described as brownish birds, and your bird doesn't look too brownish. Here are a few photos for comparison:

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?sp=find&lang=eng&order=nro,paiva DESC&species=70170
http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?sp=find&lang=eng&order=nro,paiva DESC&species=70160

Sorry to stir the pot, and remember that I'm not an expert on this.

 

[alsirhan]

Thanks CAU for expressing your opinion, I also was thinking similar to your thought; according to literature it should have warm brown upperparts, the appearance of green on upperparts and fringes to wing feathers makes matters worse. I tentatively identified these birds as ssp. tristis of common Chiffchaff. Their calls appeared different to me so I had to record their calls and compare them with the available calls of ssp. tristis (recorded in India).
Here is an interesting link, I copied the following text from it:
http://www.club300.de/articles/005_tristis/index.html
Comment by José Luis Copete, Spain:
"Despite short supercilium and slight contrast between head and mantle, this bird has been identified as lorenzii, because the overall brownish tones on upperparts, dark bill and tarsus, and almost general absence of green tones in the plumage. It should be noted, however, that this bird and others trapped on the same site on the same day showed yellowish underwing coverts, and olive-green tones on edge of flight feathers, features which are also present in this species despite some published illustrations in which they are not so apparent."
In page 27 in the Sound Approach to Birding by M. Constantine there is another sonogram of a ssp. tristis also from India, these calls also look different from our birds here.

Alsirhan

 

[SJC]

I have seen Moutain Chiffchaff in Georgia/Armenia and they looked a lot browner than in these photos. In fact they had no hint of green/yellow but were completely brownish (including the wings) on top and had a lot of brownish buff on the flanks and upper breast.

 

[andyb39]

Hello again,

Have copied the link to the picture of the previously mentioned individual with apparent green tones and some attached text, which concerns the underwing colouration, which might be relevant to the photo above of bird 7409.

www.club300.de/articles/005_tristis/index.html09.

I don't think that the bird from 3/12 is lorenzii though.

Andrew Bailey



Andrew Bailey









I don't think the bird from 3/12 looks right for lorenzii though.

 

[alsirhan]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for expressing your opinion on this Chiffchaff. Your link has already been mentioned in post 4.
Strangely but all bird calls I have heard were similar to the sonagrams I have posted although they appear to have differences in plumage.

In the article mentioned in post 10, it says that:
"the difference in call notes between lorenzii, sindianus and caucasicus are illustrated by sonagrams in Helbig et al. 1996 Phylogeny and species limits in the Palaearctic chiffchaff complex: mitochondrial genetic differentiation and bioacoustic evidence. Ibis 138:650-666."
If someone have this article it may become easy to solve this mystery!

Alsirhan

 

[Carpospiza]

Hi Alsirhan and All,

I'm not going to identify these birds (it's above my experience), but I don't think the images in the posts ## 1 and 2 show lorenzii. Besides some other suspicuous feelings, it's just not brown above as, IMHO, winter lorenzii should be. Compare overall coloration with worn spring and fresh autumn migrants from Armenia on this page. (Is there a pre-breeding moult known for lorenzii??)

Few words re the widespread opinion on lack of 'greens' in lorenzii - they definitely have olive-green edges on remiges and rectrices and uppertail coverts. This is visible in the field under good light conditions and reasonably close distance, while instantly obvious in the hand. However, edges of remiges of your birds look too bright. Also, in lorenzii underwing coverts and axillaries are normally sulfur-yellow, just like on your photo 7401. These said to be also cream (Birds of the Soviet Union 1954), but I never encountered the latter color so far.

Rgds:smoke:

 

[alsirhan]

Hi Carpospiza,
Thanks you for the update of this issue, currently we are trying to the solve the mystery of its call that is still wide spread in Kuwait. We can't find any call of lorenzii in the internet to compare with at the moment. Its call is different from tristis calls from India and Oman. But I did found a similar call recorded in Estonia. It is the call numbered (2) in this link.
http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/phycol/phycol.htm

I have attached the sonogram of call (2) and our birds in Kuwait for you to see and compare.

Alsirhan

 

[Carpospiza]

Hi Alsirhan,

Thanks for the spectrograms, but I'm not an expert and these tell me little without direct comparison materials available for 100% lorenzii.

One type of lorenzii call is found on BWP on CDROM, a recording of a May bird by K.Mild. There's just one unit. I attach a spectrogram of that call, if it be of any help.

There is another type of call, which is more commonly heard from autumn birds, "FEEuh" or however you spell it, dropping in the end and given at irregular intervals. This one should produce spectrogram similar to your's.
I'm not making sound recordings, and yet have to differentiate various lorenzii (and local collybita) calls for myself, difficult. Sometimes I have an impression that calls vary not only by season, but also by "mud and enthusiasm" of an individual calling bird!

 

[alsirhan]

Hi Carpospiza,

Many thanks for the spectrogram you provided, it will help for sure.

Regards,
Alsirhan