Juvenile Northern Mockingbird? Brown Thrasher? Something else? / Melanie Lane Wetlands, Morris Cty NJ (1 Viewer)

[rascolnicov]

I am trying to identify two birds, I believe the veterans will quickly solve the first one for which I got a good shot.
1. Bird seemed a little larger than a mockingbird (compare to fire hydrant) but I could be wrong, I was at some distance and inside the car.
That's the first thought I had, based on white patch on wing but the head looks more like a brown thrasher to my eyes. Yet neither bird seems a good match due to various other elements (e.g. bill seems more curved for a mockinbird), so I expect this was a different bird, curious to find out which.



2. This poor shot taken at some 200 ft distance from the first, within 10 minutes. I had no idea what bird it was when taken (I still don't). The long tail with apparent white edges makes me think it may be the same bird in shot #1 above but that is a wild assumption.

What do y'all think?

 

[nartreb]

You're right about the first bird, definitely northern mockingbird. The square white wing patch doesn't leave much room for doubt. (Combine with eye color, beak shape, overall proportions and color, and I can't think of anything close. Brown thrasher is a good thought, but they show brown back and spotted breast from their first plumage (while their eyes are still blue).

There's a good chance you are also right about the second bird, i.e. it's actually the first bird (or a sibling). That big tail really narrows your options. One should consider a grey catbird (would show a reddish vent from this angle but the branch hides it; can't see the eye color, and there's maybe a glimpse of a dark cap if that's not a leaf shadow). Or a young grackle, but I just don't think so - it's not dark enough. I do think the pale edges on the tail are real (not just photo artifact caused by backlighting) and they match your first bird quite well.

 

[rascolnicov]

You're right about the first bird, definitely northern mockingbird. The square white wing patch doesn't leave much room for doubt. (Combine with eye color, beak shape, overall proportions and color, and I can't think of anything close. Brown thrasher is a good thought, but they show brown back and spotted breast from their first plumage (while their eyes are still blue).

There's a good chance you are also right about the second bird, i.e. it's actually the first bird (or a sibling). That big tail really narrows your options. One should consider a grey catbird (would show a reddish vent from this angle but the branch hides it; can't see the eye color, and there's maybe a glimpse of a dark cap if that's not a leaf shadow). Or a young grackle, but I just don't think so - it's not dark enough. I do think the pale edges on the tail are real (not just photo artifact caused by backlighting) and they match your first bird quite well.

Thank you for the detailed answer!

 

[qwerty5]

I agree bird #1 is a mockingbird

Bird #2 I would say is a catbird. The underparts are much too dark for a mockingbird, and I don't think it's a photo artifact. As you can see in the photo below, a mockingbird will show much more white on the underside of the tail, and I'm am not convinced the white in your photo is real at all.

 

[KenM]

Last bird is also a Mockingbird an adult.

Cheers

 

[KenM]

Last bird is also a Mockingbird an adult.

Cheers

 

[Butty]

Bird #2 I would say is a catbird. The underparts are much too dark for a mockingbird, and I don't think it's a photo artifact. As you can see in the photo below, a mockingbird will show much more white on the underside of the tail, and I'm am not convinced the white in your photo is real at all.

This seems to be well-argued and correct.

 

[rkj]

I agree bird #1 is a mockingbird

Bird #2 I would say is a catbird. The underparts are much too dark for a mockingbird, and I don't think it's a photo artifact. As you can see in the photo below, a mockingbird will show much more white on the underside of the tail, and I'm am not convinced the white in your photo is real at all.

Hard to be sure, but the black cap of a Gray Catbird is perhaps also there. Too bad the vent are is hidden behind a branch.

 

[nartreb]

On third look, I am joining the catbird camp for the second bird (third photo). I think the cap is pigment and not shadow, the only eye color we can see is dark, and qwerty5 is right about the breast color.

 

[Tucson Birder]

I see more Mockingbirds than Catbirds where I live, but I noticed the cap as well, so put me me in the Catbird camp for the 2nd bird.

 

[rascolnicov]

I see more Mockingbirds than Catbirds where I live, but I noticed the cap as well, so put me me in the Catbird camp for the 2nd bird.

In my area there definitely more catbirds. And seen/heard them in the area where I took the pictures all the time, including on the day.
In contrast, this would be a first time seeing a mockingbird there (but they are widespread in the general surrounding area).

 

[rascolnicov]

Thanks to all who chimed in!