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Labrador Duck (1 Viewer)

jurek said:
DNA shows that it was real thing, eg.:
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1642/0004-8038(2007)124[962:GIOEPF]2.0.CO;2
Click to expand...

McCarthy actually cites that paper, but only the part about the eggs being from other species. He doesn't mention that that was determined by comparing genetic material to specimens that included Labrador Ducks. Maybe I just don't know enough about how the genetics of hybrids look, but it seems like we ought to have noticed by now if this was the case.
 
Technically, the mtDNA shows that the Labrador Duck specimen didn't match Common Eider. There are no DNA sequence data that overlap between Labrador Duck and Steller's Eider (not that I think McCarthy's idea is plausible...the dude thinks humans are a chimp/pig hybrid, for heaven's sake).
 
jurek said:
DNA shows that it was real thing, eg.:
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1642/0004-8038(2007)124[962:GIOEPF]2.0.CO;2
Click to expand...

The précis says of 9 eggs sampled, none was Labrador Duck. (Six RB Merganser, one Common Eider and two Mallard/Muck Ducks). The DNA of a Labrador Duck was used as part of the probe.
So the issue remains unsettled apparently, as the analysis was not of the duck, but of the purported eggs..

It is useful to note that Dr. McCarthy has a very open mind concerning hybridization possibilities well beyond the limits of orthodoxy.
 
It's one thing to comment that the male has plumage intermediate between Steller's and Common Eider, but what about the female? From the pictures, the female plumage seems to have characteristics (white throat, white in the wing) which should not have come from either of the supposed parents.
 
Labrador Duck mtDNA was sequenced from a specimen to compare with the eggs. It was not identical to either Common or Stellar's Eider as one would expect had it been a hybrid.

Both the pig and chimp genomes have been sequenced and published. Human origin most certainly did not involve any kind of hybridization between those two species. It's not about having an open mind. It's about evidence. Sometimes orthodoxy is orthodoxy for a reason and crazy ideas are just crazy.
 
etudiant said:
It is useful to note that Dr. McCarthy has a very open mind concerning hybridization possibilities well beyond the limits of orthodoxy.
Click to expand...

An open mind is one thing, but an unlatched mind is quite another - the former allows for coherent, evidence-based reasoning:t:, the latter doesn't:-C.
MJB
 
mckaybailey said:
Labrador Duck mtDNA was sequenced from a specimen to compare with the eggs. It was not identical to either Common or Stellar's Eider as one would expect had it been a hybrid.
Click to expand...

Is there any overlap in data between Steller's Eider and Labrador Duck? I'm only aware of overlap between Common Eider and Labrador Duck, and they don't match.
 
MJB said:
An open mind is one thing, but an unlatched mind is quite another - the former allows for coherent, evidence-based reasoning:t:, the latter doesn't:-C.
MJB
Click to expand...

Actually his suggestions seem pretty coherent, even if a bit aggressive.
After seeing a video of some hapless falcon copulating with a falconers hat, extreme hybridization no longer seems that inconceivable to me.
Pigs and people both are hairless, get sunburn, have subcutaneous fat as well as sweat glands on the skin and can provide transplant organs for each other.
Coincidence? No idea, but it would be helpful if the DNA analysis could elucidate the basis of the similarities as well as the differences.
 
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can provide transplant organs for each other.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, the transplants across species require some serious genetic engineering unless you want to completely immunosuppress the recipient.

Niels
 
njlarsen said:
As far as I know, the transplants across species require some serious genetic engineering unless you want to completely immunosuppress the recipient.

Niels
Click to expand...

The devil is in the details, as usual.
I'd been thinking of heart valve replacement transplants and forgot about the immunosuppression required.
 
Okay...i get crazy ideas being okay fodder for discussion forums, but to pick this idea and run with it for a news article is irresponsible.

A lot of people are not going to realize how unsupported this is, and assume this is the latest fact. You can say anything you feel like in a blog post, but that doesn't make it newsworthy.

Should I start up a blog to talk about how I have Archaeopteryx visiting my feeder? Hey Birdwatch could cover that next week as a news item!
 
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Morgan, in the worst case scenario, impressionable extremely elderly Birdwatch readers might be duped into removing Labrador Duck from their ABA Area life lists. ;)
 
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eh...you would be surprised how quickly stuff can spread to more mainstream sources once an iota of attention is paid to them...

The "Kraken" talks at GSA the last few years ended up getting pretty extensive media coverage, even though they were poorly vetted abstracts.
 
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