Little Swift? N.East London (1 Viewer)

[KenM]

Before starting some tree lopping this afternoon in the front garden c3pm, I took a few shots of a single House Martin (a whizzing thing soon over the chimney pots) and a couple of Swifts, took a few bursts a quick look at the Swifts (first three out of focus ) which I deleted, promptly put the camera and bins in the house before starting my gardening exercise.
This evening after dinner, I ran through the remaining couple of shots.....comments appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Butty]

Common swifts

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Before starting some tree lopping this afternoon in the front garden c3pm, I took a few shots of a single House Martin (a whizzing thing soon over the chimney pots) and a couple of Swifts, took a few bursts a quick look at the Swifts (first three out of focus ) which I deleted, promptly put the camera and bins in the house before starting my gardening exercise.
This evening after dinner, I ran through the remaining couple of shots.....comments appreciated.

CheersView attachment 1386184

Are these the same individual, or two different birds?

 

[Microtus]

This is a Little Swift:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1394601433840893953

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Thank you Microtus for sharing this with us!

 

[Microtus]

Sure thing Alexander. It's an astonishing photo!

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Ken, I agree with Butty.
I hope this doesnt come out of an offense: if you come across a (suspected) rare swift, and can get shots of the bird: NEVER delete any of your pictures, no matter how bad/unsharp/wrong position.
Yes, I know, I have overstretched this in quite a few cases, but:
I have to admit I intentionsly made a mistake in this post. See, if you can find the mistake for yourself!

If not: change the word swift to bird

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

One thing I want to ad: Common Swift is a bird, that give a different, sometimes very different impression on a picture and in real life. We all know, what a Common Swift looks like, when slicing through the air in high-speed and at least I am surprised when seeing the same bird one (or more) pictures of the same bird (if much worser pictures to illustrate this are needed, I can help)
Your bird is a good example for this: the wing-shape seems unusual/strange paddle-shaped, but the bird actually bends its wings at rear. When knowing this, wing-shape seems ok for a Common Swift.
Please compare here:

More here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY36iCT3WNtiIQ5-xa3mlCw (incredible work by Jean-François Cornuet !)

 

[PYRTLE]

Wonderful videos Alexander, thanks for sharing them - it shows how quickly the typical Common Swift profile can change to something resembling a squatter, bumpier, short tailed individual which is exactly the difference in Ken's two images and the subsequent comment asking if this is the same bird. Good stuff.

 

[KenM]

Are these the same individual, or two different birds?

Two different birds, I showed Common Swift (1st image) as a comparison for the second.
There were 2-3 Swifts appearing and disappearing over the roof tops, took some shots to include a smaller dark White rumped hirundine (assumed House Martin) which at this time of year...are scarce locally. Am finding it difficult to reconcile the 2nd image (short wings and shape, with a proportionately large head to body ratio) with Common Swift.

Cheers

 

[Butty]

As Alex says, wing-shape varies substantially with flight-attitude - obviously. Tail-shape in both photos is absolutely wrong for little swift - obviously. I don't know why this discussion is even taking place.

 

[KenM]

As Alex says, wing-shape varies substantially with flight-attitude - obviously. Tail-shape in both photos is absolutely wrong for little swift - obviously. I don't know why this discussion is even taking place.

Full marks for ID’ng the first image Butty!
Is their no end to your consummate skills, I suspect there’s a “hot seat” awaiting you at your local committee branch.

The second image was part of the “perceived” House Martin burst, you know...those little dark jobs with white rumps!

Cheers

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

I agree with both views; yes Butty, both birds are Common Swift, but as for example I have never seen a Little Swift before, its not that easy, and your answer helped me to see a Common Swift in the second picture (as said before, I learn so much from other posts)

I try the same like you Ken sometimes, too:
a browner bird with light adding to this effect: Mauersegler (23. 05 2018, Prenzlau, NE-Germany)
Mauersegler 16.6.18 (16.06. 2018, Prenzlau, NE-Germany)
Mauersegler 18.7.17 (18.07. 2017, Prenzlau, NE-Germany)
Mauersegler 9.6.18 (09.06. 2018, Prenzlau, NE-Germany)
Mauersegler Prenzlau BB (10.07. 2017, Prenzlau, NE-Germany)
Mauersegler und Zilpzalp (30. 05 2018, Prenzlau, NE-Germany) yes, I can identify a Common Swift against a Chiffchaff

I can provide more such bursts and tried this yesterday. So, Ken: your picture of the second bird is one of the better pitfall-pictures of a Common Swift

Conclusion? Keep them coming: both, the pitfall-pictures from Ken for quiz-modus and posts where I can learn, like the ansswers from Butty and others! Thanks for that!

 

[KenM]

If nothing else Alexander, I enjoy your unabashed enthusiasm a quality sorely lacking on this forum.👍

Surprisingly!..I’m “extremely“ (operative word) aware of the variable wing and tail geometry of aerial birds.
I’ve got images of wedge-tailed buzzards (not a species), fork-tailed and round-tailed Sprawks also square-tailed Goshawk, so I might just have a modicum of experience in that direction.

If you read the text Alexander you’ll note that the “subject“ image was one of a burst aimed at a “House Martin”.👍

 

[Maffong]

I feel like this thread is somewhat confusing to understand. It would be better if you deleted the picture of the Common Swift or at least made it very obvious that it's only supposed to be used for comparison.
I find the picture in question intriguing, but don't feel confident commenting further than that. Are there really no other pics than that?

 

[Maffong]

Here's a picture that shows a Little Swift in an almost identical angle. The tail shape differs considerably from your bird. https://www.birdingplaces.eu/files/medium/Little Swift Klaas de Jong.jpg

 

[KenM]

Yes, thanks for that picture Maffong, if anything the wings on your image appear slimmer and longer than the “subject” bird, where they show a more compact shape with a proportionately larger head?
Unfortunately I found myself in an invidious situation, seeing the image for the first time...c6 hours after the event!

 

[Jeff Woad]

Hi Ken,

I'd suggest that the wings are tilted downwards towards the camera so they appear unusual and not representative of their true shape. Quite common in bird photos. Why not get back out with the camera and take a load more Swift pics- I imagine it wouldn't be too long before you captured something similar again?

Cheers,

JW

 

[KenM]

Hi Ken,

I'd suggest that the wings are tilted downwards towards the camera so they appear unusual and not representative of their true shape. Quite common in bird photos. Why not get back out with the camera and take a load more Swift pics- I imagine it wouldn't be too long before you captured something similar again?

Cheers,

JW

Good suggestion Jeff....what about the head being 25% of the total body length...when Common Swift is 20% which makes the subject bird appear “big headed” also Holland’s 4th Little Swift yesterday. I suspect a coincidence all round...big head to body ratio, compacted wings and the Dutch record, have you seen the images?

Cheers 👍

 

[THE_FERN]

Not a little swift.