Looking for some advice on a lighter kit (3 Viewers)

[winecountryguy]

My wife is using a Prominar TSN88 angled scope with a Manfrotto MT290XTC3US carbon fiber tripod and the Manfrotto 128RC micro fluid head.

The issue is the weight of all of this when transporting it around. The tripod and head together are 5.6 pounds. Add that to the scope and case and some padding for the tripod and it is close to 10 pounds. We are looking for a tripod and head combination that is at least 1.5 pounds lighter if possible while maintaining stability (and height, we are both 5'11").

We had a chance at the GWIAB festival in Ohio to check out tripods and scopes at the optics vendor area. Kowa is featuring Vanguard tripods and we checked out the smaller one they pair with the 55 and 66 versions of the Prominar. With head it is only 3 pounds! But we found it to be too short, requiring the center column to be extended fairly far to work for us--too much vibration.

The larger Vanguard is 4 pounds. That's the Vanguard VEO 5 264CV14. Still a big weight savings.

I've seen discussions here suggesting the Gitzo tripod and head though there are suggestions that the head doesn't lock too tightly and may not be adequate for the 88.

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of the Vanguard tripod in the field? Or thoughts on a good alternative to our Manfrotto kit which is very stable but is really unusable at 5.6 pounds. Would love something that tops out at 4 pounds, tripod and head, but is still stable "enough" for use in the somewhat windy Bay area.

Thank you!

 

[Dasherman]

Just to check: are you looking for a light weight setup for the 88 scope, or do you plan to use the tripod and head with a lighter weight scope?

 

[Hermann]

Essential reading: Tringa's A Tripod Primer (stickied post on this forum), and The Center Column (The Center Column), geared to photography but well worth checking out.

I'm a Gitzo guy, have been using mainly Gitzos for over 40 years now. I don't know much about Vanguard. However, the basic principles are always the same. I'm a bit taller than you, 6'1''.

A tripod for windy conditions needs to have fairly thick legs to keep the vibrations down, it needs to be tall enough, and it needs to have some weight. My combination of tripod+head for use with the Nikon ED82 (roughly comparable to your Kowa) when I'm birding at the coast weighs ~3.2 kg, that's a bit more than 7 pounds. The tripod is an old aluminium Gitzo with a Manfrotto 500AH head that's considerably more stable than the 128RC. I also sometimes use an even heavier wooden surveyors tripod that weighs ~4 kg (almost 9 pounds) without the head. That tripod works well even in gale force winds.

The smallest tripod I'd use in windy conditions is a Gitzo Mountaineer Series 2 tripods, i.e. the 2532 or the 2542 (I still use an old 2541), with a decent head like the GHF2W. Total weight would be something like 2.3 kg, approx. 5 pounds. BTW, I use the predecessor of the GHF2W, the Gitzo 2180, and I find it works well, even with the heavy ED82.

If you want to go lighter, you'll have to cope with somewhat reduced stability and increased vibrations in windy conditions. My lightweight tripod is the Gitzo Traveller GT1545T. With the same head, the GHF2W (or my old 2180), it weighs slightly under 1.7 kg, a bit more than 3.5 pounds. I find this setup not ideal for the ED82 though: The 1545T is not quite tall enough for me, so I have to extend the middle column a bit too much for comfort, and the setup could be a bit more stable and vibration free. The result is that I usually use this tripod with a lighter scope, a Nikon EDIIIA. But I do use it with the ED82 as well.

So, what can you do? I'd suggest you keep the heavy tripod you already have and use it when the conditions really require its stability or when you don't have to carry your gear over long distances. And I'd get a second, lighter tripod like the GT1545T with a lighter head for all other occasions.

Hermann

 

[Jon.Bryant]

For a head, I recently bought the Sirui AM-5VX, which is very compact and I am pleased with. According to the spec, the head weighs 530g (compared to 1kg for your 128RC). The max load is 3kg or 6.6lb, so less than the 6kg for the Manfrotto head, but a TSN 88 is less than 2kg, so I am sure it will work fine. The head uses a standard Swiss arca plate (with safety catch). The plate can be slid back or forth a little to balance the scope. Although the head is fluid and damped, if the scope is not balanced, the scope can tip forward or back quite easily if not locked in position - the only real negative.

Over the years I have had carbon fibre tripods by Manfrotto, Gitzo and Benzo. I am 6ft 1 so need a tall tripod (although I do use an angled scope that reduces the height requirements of the tripod). To be honest I have not really noticed a big difference in tripod weights - the Gitzo is undoubtedly the best made, but I think when I looked at specs the Benzo was the lightest. My tripod are all a few years old and models keep changing, so I would check specs online for the major brands then try and look at some in the shops.

 

[winecountryguy]

Just to check: are you looking for a light weight setup for the 88 scope, or do you plan to use the tripod and head with a lighter weight scope?

That's a good question. Our first idea is to focus on reducing the tripod/head weight from 5.6 pounds to something at least a pound and preferably 1.5-2 pounds. We noticed the difference of two pounds at the festival optics tend when trying different setups.

That said, one option is to sell the 88 and swap for a 66. That helps. OR spend even more $$ and KEEP the 88 and get a 55. At that point we will be more invested in scopes and tripods than we would rationally want to be..but there's little rationality when it comes to gear!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

And I'd get a second, lighter tripod like the GT1545T

Yes, looking at a few tripods the weight range seems to be 1-1.4kg for a carbon fibre tripods, with the GT1545T leading the pack. Not sure how they do this, given the fold down length and the fact it is 4 section - although the bottom leg section does look spindly. My wife has a traveller monopod for photography and to be honest it was probably a poor choice for her as the bottom leg section is like a match stick and ultimately makes her monopod less steady. I note the GT1545T can take up to 10kg, but the blurb says recommended for 200mm lens max. I suspect this is due to rigidity and shake, rather than payload. Ultimately the chunkier the carbon fibre tubing the more steady the tripod will be - but the more heavy it will become. Obviously for a tripod any shake ends up being magnified. I would therefore definitely recommend trying before buying, particularly as you will probably only end up saving a max of 500g (with the GT1545T) and probably only 100 to 150 grams with the other contenders.

 

[Dasherman]

I think it's going to be tough to save a lot of weight while still having a stable enough setup for such a large scope. Much greater savings become feasible if you're willing to use a smaller scope. I personally have a 50mm one and a 85mm one. Extra advantage of the 50mm scope is that the minimal zoom is smaller, making it easier to find birds. I actually prefer it over the large scope in forest areas.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

That said, one option is to sell the 88 and swap for a 66.

There is always the Swarovski ATC - friends have one and it certainly seems to packs a punch for a very light and small travel scope.

 

[Montereyman]

I bought a 65mm scope to minimize the weight to be carried and mounted an Arca-Swiss compatible plate on its base so I can use a wide variety of "photo" tripods. My favorite is the Feisol CT-3441T travel tripod that weighs 2.6 lb and supports a 44 lb load. I use a lightweight tilt head.

Last year I bought the Sig Sauer image stabilized 16x42 binoculars that weigh 21.9 oz and I can use hand held with ease. Since getting these binoculars my scope has not left the house.

 

[winecountryguy]

There is always the Swarovski ATC - friends have one and it certainly seems to packs a punch for a very light and small travel scoThis started with the purchase of the ATC as a lighter alternative. We then left for the festival and tried it, the Kowa 55, the 66 and various tripods there. We prefer the Kowa scopes overall (have the Swarovski ELs and NLs, those are great), not sure whether the 55 is sufficient. Originally we were going to sell the 88 but now may end up keeping it plus the 55. Or sell the 88 and get the 66. Or do nothing as the transactions costs are high!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

True the transaction costs will be high, but I was surprised that the trade in value of even old(ish) scopes in good condition can be reasonable.

Some time ago I traded in a Kowa scope and purchased the Swarovski ATX 95mm. We also had a Leica APO 62mm for travel and longer days out. But it seemed a bit daft having a modular scope (the ATX) and not making use of this function, hence the recent trade in of the Leica and the purchase of the ATX 65mm objective lens. I haven’t done the maths, but although the ATX85 is expensive, as the 65 objective is relatively cheap, I suspect this option is cheaper than two complete separate scopes. The downside is that it is a bit fiddly to change objective lens and I don’t think the ATX65 is the lightest 65mm scope.

 

[Bill Atwood]

"According to the spec, the head weighs 530g (compared to 1kg for your 128RC)"

The 128RC's actual weight with the plate is 1.7lbs (771g). Without the plate it's 1.61lbs (730g).

 

[Bill Atwood]

For Reference:

Kowa 66A kit - 8.07 lbs. It includes the 66a with Lenscoat and caps, Gitzo GHF2W head w/Sirui TY-70A plate and Gitzo GT1532 legs

Swaro ATC 56 Kit - 5.70 lbs. It includes the ATC w/caps, Sirui V-5 head w/ATC anti-rotation adapter plate and Gitzo GT1545T legs.

Used the ATC for the first time last weekend during the Illinois Spring Bird Count. The size and weight sure make it easy to deal with. FOV at the short end is nice also. Wish Swaro could of pushed it to 50x. The anti-rotation plate helps, but still allows a little movement. Will have to give some thought on what would be acceptable filler for the holes in the bottom of the scope. Although it adds about half a pound I may switch to running the ATC on the GT1532 legs. Really don't like dealing 4 sections, (except to facilitate air travel.)

 

[4John]

That's a good question. Our first idea is to focus on reducing the tripod/head weight from 5.6 pounds to something at least a pound and preferably 1.5-2 pounds. We noticed the difference of two pounds at the festival optics tend when trying different setups.

winecountryguy,

The lightest tripod Hermann uses is the Gitzo Traveller GT1545T. This weighs 1.055kg/2.325 lb which is one of the lightest available. However, when you add the weight of the head it's barely inside the upper limit of your target weight range, and from what he says above I don't think it meets your stability criteria for the "somewhat windy Bay area". I have a carbon fibre Feisol 3441T that weighs 1.2kg / 2.6 lb, which is not much more that the GT1545T and I regularly had to hang my rucsac on the hook provided on the bottom of the centre column to hold it down. I therefore think your tripod and head target weight range and the requirement for the tripod to be "still stable "enough" for use in the somewhat windy Bay area" are incompatible.

I would try a smaller scope to save weight, and use it with your existing tripod and head for windy days, and perhaps buy a lighter tripod like the Gitzo Traveller GT1545T for calm days/places.

 

[winecountryguy]

"According to the spec, the head weighs 530g (compared to 1kg for your 128RC)"

The 128RC's actual weight with the plate is 1.7lbs (771g). Without the plate it's 1.61lbs (730g).

Wow. I guess I am going to take the head off the tripod and weight it. I know it FEELS heavy but that's a big difference!

 

[Bill Atwood]

Pretty sure the 2.2lbs is the old Bogen 3130 weight. IME the accuracy of Manfrotto's specs is somewhat suboptimum.

 

[4John]

IME the accuracy of Manfrotto's specs is somewhat suboptimum.

Bill,

Agreed. The Manfrotto site here 128RC Micro Fluid Video Head, aluminium has the weight as 1kg / 2.204 lb . Not sure what Manfrotto mean by the word "micro" in the title !

 

[4John]

winecountryguy,

The lightest tripod Hermann uses is the Gitzo Traveller GT1545T. This weighs 1.055kg/2.325 lb which is one of the lightest available. However, when you add the weight of the head it's barely inside the upper limit of your target weight range, and from what he says above I don't think it meets your stability criteria for the "somewhat windy Bay area". I have a carbon fibre Feisol 3441T that weighs 1.2kg / 2.6 lb, which is not much more that the GT1545T and I regularly had to hang my rucsac on the hook provided on the bottom of the centre column to hold it down. I therefore think your tripod and head target weight range and the requirement for the tripod to be "still stable "enough" for use in the somewhat windy Bay area" are incompatible.

I would try a smaller scope to save weight, and use it with your existing tripod and head for windy days, and perhaps buy a lighter tripod like the Gitzo Traveller GT1545T for calm days/places.

I would add FWIW, that IMO the only way to really save rig weight is to use a monopod. My main, and only rig, is a Nikon ED50 on a monopod, total rig weight around 1.1 kg / 2.4 lb. I would never go back to the Swarovski STS80 and Manfrotto 443 carbon fibre tripod with B200 head that it replaced. I would argue that my current rig actually performs better in windy conditions that the STS80 on a tripod it replaced. But I appreciate that monopods only float a few people's boats.

 

[Dasherman]

My light weight setup is an Opticron MM3 50 ED scope (angled) on a Sirui AT-125 tripod and a cheap video head off Aliexpress. Total weight about 1800 gram. Very light and compact (fits into a small backpack), but not really appropriate for windy conditions I think (not sure I ever tried though).