Maghreb or Crested Lark ? MOROCCO (1 Viewer)

[FormerMemberfor15years]

Hi all,

I've seen this Crested Lark in Marrakech last week. I think it is only the range of Crested Lark but the bill is so long that I've a doubt. What do you think and are you aware of any records of Maghreb Lark north of the High-Atlas mountains ? THANKS.

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

bump... no taker ?

 

[Earnest lad]

I have seen some pics online of Mahgreb Lark and in some of them the bill was even bigger than the bill of your bird seems to be. However on other images posted, the bills seem to be of similar size to that of your bird.
In December I visited Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt and took a few Crested Lark pics. The birds there seemed to me to to have large (ish) bills ( for example, see attached) This gave me cause to wonder about this species Mahgreb Lark. I am not so sure. Hope this helps.

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

Here is a typical Maghreb Lark in its range, in Merzouga (Morocco). Taken on the 15th of May 2024.

 

[Butty]

The OP's pic 2 is almost shocking in bill-length (and depth) - remarkably (and surprisingly, to me anyway) distinctive. They're such good photos that you can easily measure bill-length (tip-to-feathering) and compare it to feathering-to-eye, and bill-length is then much greater in pic 2. So, if bill-length is prime criterion, I doubt that the bird in pic 1 is 'Maghreb lark'. I find it a general rule, and it certainly applies here, that it's unwise to assess a bird's bill-length (or -shape) visually when its bill is open (as in pic 1). In my opinion.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

I should state from the outset that I have no personal experience of Maghreb but there do seem to consistent differences in bill structure, face pattern and overall colouration in comparison to Crested. In addition to the bill structure mentioned by Butty above, Maghreb appears more open-faced i.e the ear coverts are paler, the loral line, moustachial and malar stripes along with lower border to ear coverts are all less well-defined as is the pale sub-ocular area. Upperparts appear paler and sandier in tone.

Agree with Butty the OP is Crested.

Grahame

 

[pbjosh]

Unless I’m forgetting I don’t think there’s been anything substantive published on Maghreb Lark in a decade or more and it is not really a well defined entity.

So it’s perhaps also a question of what is the range and variation of Maghreb Lark - what are the diagnosable characters? Do Maghreb and Crested overlap or touch or form a cline or???

I agree that the bird in question seems to have plumage characters more reminiscent of a classic Crested Lark vs a “typical Merzouga area bird that gets called a Maghreb Lark“ but without a good understanding of exactly what a Maghreb Lark is and where it is expected, can the question even be authoritatively answered?

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Unless I’m forgetting I don’t think there’s been anything substantive published on Maghreb Lark in a decade or more and it is not really a well defined entity.

So it’s perhaps also a question of what is the range and variation of Maghreb Lark - what are the diagnosable characters? Do Maghreb and Crested overlap or touch or form a cline or???

I agree that the bird in question seems to have plumage characters more reminiscent of a classic Crested Lark vs a “typical Merzouga area bird that gets called a Maghreb Lark“ but without a good understanding of exactly what a Maghreb Lark is and where it is expected, can the question even be authoritatively answered?

With hindsight seems it's a 'minefield' I should not have entered!

Grahame

 

[Southern Viking]

Unless I’m forgetting I don’t think there’s been anything substantive published on Maghreb Lark in a decade or more and it is not really a well defined entity.

So it’s perhaps also a question of what is the range and variation of Maghreb Lark - what are the diagnosable characters? Do Maghreb and Crested overlap or touch or form a cline or???

I agree that the bird in question seems to have plumage characters more reminiscent of a classic Crested Lark vs a “typical Merzouga area bird that gets called a Maghreb Lark“ but without a good understanding of exactly what a Maghreb Lark is and where it is expected, can the question even be authoritatively answered?

If you throw Green Woodpeckers, Ficadula Flycatchers, Long-legged Buzzards etc into the mix, the whole area is a very interesting one for the study of speciation I suspect (whole area being Iberia and NW Africa).

Edit, never mind Algerian/Corsican Nuthatch, Maghreb Magpie, Balearic Warbler, Med Flycatcher and no doubt many others that don't immediately spring to mind

 

[JWN Andrewes]

If you throw Green Woodpeckers, Ficadula Flycatchers, Long-legged Buzzards etc into the mix, the whole area is a very interesting one for the study of speciation I suspect (whole area being Iberia and NW Africa).

Edit, never mind Algerian/Corsican Nuthatch, Maghreb Magpie, Balearic Warbler, Med Flycatcher and no doubt many others that don't immediately spring to mind

Another one for the mix would be badius Woodchat.

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

Another one for the mix would be badius Woodchat.

I guided in Morocco from 1992 to 2006, and I always looked for several distinctive taxa such Maghreb Lark, Seebohm's (Atlas) Wheatear, North African (Mourning) Wheatear, North African Buzzard, Atlas Flyctacher, African Blue Tit and more as if they were split. Most of them have been split since then but I didn't visit Morocco for 18 years. I'm now in the field with a clear delay in my knowledge while I was ahead in 2006. It is thus very interesting to submit to you guys some photos to see how people with recent litterature in hand and/or recent experience see these birds.

About 30 years, I even wrote a article for the GOMAC (a Moroccan bird association) to identify the numerous subspecies of both Thekla and Crested Larks in Morocco. Even then, I can't remember a Crested (except for macrochyncha of course) with such a long bill as the Marrekesh one I've posted here.

I'm updating my in-built hard disk and BF help me to do so... thanks all

 

[pbjosh]

No doubt Galeridas are fascinating in NW Africa, and still understudied. AFAIK the split of Maghreb Lark was based upon mtDNA and somewhat on morphology, but due to varying bill lengths even between birds in Merzouga and birds around Boumalne Dades and other sites south of the High Atlas I’ve seen supposition that there are Crested Larks S of the High Atlas in the areas adjacent to the Sahara. But any kind of definitive information on the range of Maghreb Lark or how much variation it has is something I was not able to sort find an answer to when I prepared for a trip earlier this year. Seeing birds in various locations S of the Atlas kind of lead to some head scratching but we’ve not gone back and gone through photos yet ourselves.

For anyone who’s not seen it, an interesting article here:

Taxonomic status of 'long-billed' Crested Larks at Aousserd? - MaghrebOrnitho

What is the identity and status of “long-billed” Crested Larks at Aousserd region and the adjacent Atar area in central-west Mauritania?

magornitho.org

 

[wolfbirder]

Those Maghreb Larks seen around Mergouza all seem to have a long bill AND a paler relatively unstreaked mantle.
Recent DNA analysis has revealed Maghreb Lark is actually more closely related to Sun Lark than Crested.
Of course larks can nomadic according to conditions, but most Crested type larks around the rest of Morocco are Crested Larks.

 

[Muppit17]

Those Maghreb Larks seen around Mergouza all seem to have a long bill AND a paler relatively unstreaked mantle.
Recent DNA analysis has revealed Maghreb Lark is actually more closely related to Sun Lark than Crested.
Of course larks can nomadic according to conditions, but most Crested type larks around the rest of Morocco are Crested Larks.

I have written on this many times, and it is a difficult subject.

I have been visiting Morocco for over 20 years and guided 5 trips last year and have today returned from guiding my third this year. I think I also recognise some of the quotes from previous discussions.

I have never knowingly seen Maghreb Lark away from the the Saharan edges biome that is south of the Anti Atlas. This is an area about 800m asl, note that around Ouarzazate is c1400m.

This Saharan edge used to be more typically Sahelian, until expansion of the Saharan made it hotter & drier.This link seems to be supported by the relationship between Sun Lark & Maghreb in the recent paper.

However I have to accept that the type specimen for Maghreb Lark allegedly was collected 'near Marrakech'.

As with Desert Lark, these larks seems to be variable in bill and colouration depending on their home rock colour & type. However songs are consistent. I will always be suspicious of Maghreb Lark reports away from the Saharan edge, but photos are often not conclusive on their own.