Marsh Tit or Willow Tit? (1 Viewer)

[GreyNomad500]

The difficulty in distinguishing between these two birds is well-known but as someone who rarely comes across them, it's just about impossible.
The attached pictures were taken on Thursday (28th Nov) from the bird hide on the Beaulieu River near Buckler's Hard in Hampshire, not far from The Solent. There were several feeders just outside the hide.
My inclination is that these birds are Marsh Tits rather than Willows. Are there any locals or other experts who can give a more definite identification?
Any help gratefully received!

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Pale base to the base of the upper mandible = marsh tit (though it is possible for MT not to show this). Almost the easiest way to ID in the UK is by location - although Marsh isn't doing too well, Willow tit is incredibly range restricted now. You'd need someone local to comment on distribution in Hampshire however.

 

[WalterRayle]

There is a good population of Marsh Tits in those woods, so always going to be the most likely option, also given how rare Willow Tit is in the county now and I don't know when the last ones were recorded in the New Forest area, certainly not too recently, but I do agree with dwatson's ID.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Not the first time I was confused since our Matkoppen (Willow Tits) often are found in wet forests and marshes with young forest, while our Marsh Tits are common in the dry forests of the Veluwe.

Reading the text of Dwatsonbirder I thought ??? and of course I picked the wrong name... again

 

[Muppit17]

There is a good population of Marsh Tits in those woods, so always going to be the most likely option, also given how rare Willow Tit is in the county now and I don't know when the last ones were recorded in the New Forest area, certainly not too recently, but I do agree with dwatson's ID.

I moved to the New Forest in 1986, and still have never knowingly seen a WT in the area, although a few were claimed into the 90s.

Their stronghold was in the north of the county, but at most there are 2 pairs left. Otherwise there are no Willow Tits in Hampshire.

Marsh tits conversely are doing very well. The NF density is probably the highest in the UK. They have also spread into areas where WT were previously on territory. The 2023 survey suggested a population of over 6000 pairs.

 

[GreyNomad500]

Pale base to the base of the upper mandible = marsh tit (though it is possible for MT not to show this). Almost the easiest way to ID in the UK is by location - although Marsh isn't doing too well, Willow tit is incredibly range restricted now. You'd need someone local to comment on distribution in Hampshire however.

Thanks Dan.

 

[GreyNomad500]

There is a good population of Marsh Tits in those woods, so always going to be the most likely option, also given how rare Willow Tit is in the county now and I don't know when the last ones were recorded in the New Forest area, certainly not too recently, but I do agree with dwatson's ID.

Thanks Walter

 

[GreyNomad500]

I moved to the New Forest in 1986, and still have never knowingly seen a WT in the area, although a few were claimed into the 90s.

Their stronghold was in the north of the county, but at most there are 2 pairs left. Otherwise there are no Willow Tits in Hampshire.

Marsh tits conversely are doing very well. The NF density is probably the highest in the UK. They have also spread into areas where WT were previously on territory. The 2023 survey suggested a population of over 6000 pairs.

Thanks Muppit17

 

[GreyNomad500]

Not the first time I was confused since our Matkoppen (Willow Tits) often are found in wet forests and marshes with young forest, while our Marsh Tits are common in the dry forests of the Veluwe.

Reading the text of Dwatsonbirder I thought ??? and of course I picked the wrong name... again

🙂