Mexican hermit (hummingbird) ID (1 Viewer)

[THE_FERN]

Hi folks

Having just seen one, I was keen to understand differences between Mexican Hermit and Long-billed Hermit. I've not got access to relevant BoW and other literature, and Howell's Birds of Mexico doesn't give much. However, based on location, this:

Mexican Hermit - BirdForum Opus

should be Long-billed Hermit, shouldn't it?

Also, I note compared with images of Mexican:

• More curved bill
• Larger black face mask with thinner more pronounced (less diffuse) pale borders
• White mask borders (cf cinnamon)
• Pale greyish underparts cf buffy or brownish
• (larger)

Do we agree, and / or can someone give me more info about the "official" differences?

~Thx

 

[njlarsen]

By range alone it should be Long-billed.
Niels

 

[delia todd]

Hi folks

Having just seen one, I was keen to understand differences between Mexican Hermit and Long-billed Hermit. I've not got access to relevant BoW and other literature, and Howell's Birds of Mexico doesn't give much. However, based on location, this:

Mexican Hermit - BirdForum Opus

should be Long-billed Hermit, shouldn't it?

Also, I note compared with images of Mexican:

• More curved bill
• Larger black face mask with thinner more pronounced (less diffuse) pale borders
• White mask borders (cf cinnamon)
• Pale greyish underparts cf buffy or brownish
• (larger)

Do we agree, and / or can someone give me more info about the "official" differences?

~Thx

May I thank you for the wonderful work you've just done on the article! It's so much appreciated.

 

[01101001]

Is the bird in the photo (taken in 2009) from Long-tailed Hermit - BirdForum Opus still a Long-tailed Hermit as per newer taxonomy? It seems significantly out of range for this species now: Sign in?

 

[njlarsen]

I agree with you. A bird from Peru should be a Long-billed H according to current taxonomy.
Niels

 

[01101001]

I thought so as well, but a look at eBird records shows that Long-billed Hermit barely reaches the northern border of Peru: Sign in.

 

[njlarsen]

Let us see if @THE_FERN thinks this is another species. Otherwise I would want to believe that the range given in Clements checklist is correct.
Niels

 

[njlarsen]

On second thoughts: Atalaya is pretty far down into Peru. My field guide shows long-tailed in Amazonian Peru. If that is correct, then we need to update range in the opus page. Please check eBird for range of that one (not on my pc at the moment)
Niels

 

[pbjosh]

The first bird must be a Mexican Hermit by range, I agree. ID criteria in this group can be difficult as it varies from subspp to subspp and with age, perhaps gender, and there must be a lot of not fully understood variation. As well, the taxonomy is certainly not fully settled, particularly across the more widespread species. IE, Great-billed Hermit has at least three groups within it with very different vocalisations at leks, which seems highly indicative of future splits. But they're treated as one species/set of ID criteria by most field guides.

 

[pbjosh]

The Atalaya bird... should be Great-billed by range but that's a pretty substantial amount of rufous on the back and the bill doesn't seem obviously bicolored. Almost makes you wonder about Planalto Hermit having a greater range in Peru than mapped but my default position would be to fall back to known range / current taxonomy and require substantially more than just one photo of the back only to suggest an ID other than the expected.

 

[njlarsen]

The Atalaya bird... should be Great-billed by range but that's a pretty substantial amount of rufous on the back and the bill doesn't seem obviously bicolored. Almost makes you wonder about Planalto Hermit having a greater range in Peru than mapped but my default position would be to fall back to known range / current taxonomy and require substantially more than just one photo of the back only to suggest an ID other than the expected.

Sorry for this. My field guide for Peru (the 2010 Schulenberg) does not contain Great-billed (but both long tailed and long billed). I assume that what is called Long-tailed in this guide is Great-billed?

Regarding Great-tailed and being rufous, check this photo from Macaulay: ML135031981 Great-billed Hermit Macaulay Library

Niels

 

[THE_FERN]

Wikipedia she say:

"The great-billed hermit's taxonomy is confusing. What are now the long-billed hermit (P. longirostris) and long-tailed hermit (P. superciliosus) were considered conspecific and included many subspecies that are now assigned to the great-billed hermit. A satisfactory taxonomic treatment of the entire P. longirostris/P. superciliosus/P. malaris group is still lacking according to some Neotropical ornithologists.[5][6][7]"