Most bang for budget buck - Pro Optic 8 x 42 8.3 ED? (1 Viewer)

[RJM]

The ZRS is similar in specs to the older Bushnell Legend non-ED glass bino. But the Bushnell Legend also has Rainguard coatings (which also qualifies it for the really cool fleece camo jacket bonus offer). I believe Bushnell was the first to market hydrophobic coatings which has now been picked by the "alpha" OEMs for their flagship models.

FWIW, Edz on CN has a "highly recommended" rating on the original Legend. And in fact, that was the primary reason I took a chance on the newer Legend Ultra HD which adds a much wider FoV and ED objectives. Bushnell only sells their cheapy "toy" glass in Japan and since my interest is only in premium optics Bushnell was never on my radar. Still I had been itching to try one of these Kunming-made ED glass roofs but did not want to risk more than $300 to buy "generic". Thanks to Ardy for bringing these to my attention!

A major concern re: the Ultra HD for me was if they could pull off the much larger FoV while still maintaining the Legend's sharpness and eyerelief. Seems they have. This ultrawide FoV with very large sweet spot is the real advantage of these bins (only a handful of 8x bins are this wide and this sharp across the FoV) while the HD glass is just icing on the cake adding contrast and color saturation to the views.

Anyway, I am not pushing anything. I could care less what others buy. Just passing on free lessons I have paid "tuition" to learn. Hopefully, with all the highend optics that have passed over my peepers over the years I have learned to distinguish an exceptional optic from a marginal optic.

When making my purchasing decisions, given two binoculars with similar price/feature sets, brand vs. "generic", I will pick a brand name every time. Over the years, they store more value and have reliable warranty and service track record.

Rick

 

[birdazzLED]

I like to reference this list by EdZ

And now here is the same list of binoculars, but now showing the normal power resolution. Take note how much the order changes.

Zen Ray Summit 10x42 rp 81
Celestron Regal 10x42 rp 83
Celestron Regal 8x42 rp 83.5
Zen Ray ZEN ED2 8x43 rp smpl 1 84.5
Bushnell Legend 8x42 rp 84.5
Garrett DCF 8x42 Apo rp 86.5
Oberwerk 12x50 Sport rp 87
Leica Trinovid 10x42 rp 88
Zen Ray ZEN ED2 8x43 rp smpl 2 89
Pentax DCFHRII 10x42 rp 94
Nikon Monarch ATB10x42 rp 97

And my same few example porros for comparisons
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 81
Nikon SE 10x42 83
Nikon Action Ex 10x50 93

NOTE: the second sample of the ED2 8x43 did not reach the same limit of normal power resolution as sample 1 8x43, the ZRS or the Regal LX, or several others for that matter, but did equal sample 1 in boosted resolution. As much as people like to look at boosted resolution, you should not put a lot of weight on that boosted resolution value for a number of reasons cited elsewhwere, but primarily and simply because the binocular will never operate at that power in real use. Probably a useful indicator, I put about 1/3 weight on boosted vs 2/3 the weight given to normal power resolution.

To get some idea of how these stack up to all binoculars, values around 85 are good, below 82-83 very good. the best binoculars all range between 75 and 81. the worst are all in the high 90s.

I'm still concerned spending over $200 because of the economy - well, more because of my financial position at the moment.

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Product link at Adorama. They're selling at $200 and claiming ED glass.

http://www.adorama.com/PRO842.html

I doubt anyone is going to add ED glass an omit PC (they they can select various combinations from most OEMs when they order). But it's worth a check. Adorama have a 30 day return policy (IIRC?).

FWIW, When you quote another blog or product provide the URL so the rest of us can check it out (even if the link is part of a thread already linked). This is the internet ... linking is good.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_496b0dfd0100espz.html

From the CN thread

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3502450/Main/3491097

I think these open ridge roofs are ODM from Xi'an optics in China. From what I know, actually the optics of these are very good, certainly not "very" far away from Swar 8.5x42EL, it's probably around the performance level of Zen-Ray ED roof, which is also ODM from Kunming Optics in China.

This is probably the same bin at Xi'an.

http://www.aoi.com.cn/2319.htm

RJM: The Center Diopter feature is an interesting one. It shows someone is pushing on mechanical design of the enclosure.

By putting the diopter setting on the right barrel you need to allow that EP to move so the ER on that barrel will vary plus you have to make it waterproof (not a huge deal as it's one side of an IF bin). With center diopter setting it does make the mechanics at the enclosure more complicated (a clutch of some sort for the offset mechanism) but the eyepieces are easier to seal.

After all all the top bin makers (Euro or Japanese) do it this way. They see some advantage to adding it: either ergonomic or just product differentiation.

And it might serve as a "field mark" to identify this "second generation" open bridge Chinese enclosure amongst the different brands

One thing it shows is a continued price evolution. If it's a decent bin that could be interesting (the others from Xi'an aren't bad -- the General Hi IT 8x30 IF porro is a very nice bin according to Holger Merlitz).

There is a possibility that REI might carry these as the REI own brand bins appear to be Xi'an. If they were smart that is!

 

[birdazzLED]

Product link at Adorama. They're selling at $200 and claiming ED glass.

http://www.adorama.com/PRO842.html

I doubt anyone is going to add ED glass an omit PC (they they can select various combinations from most OEMs when they order). But it's worth a check. Adorama have a 30 day return policy (IIRC?).

FWIW, When you quote another blog or product provide the URL so the rest of us can check it out (even if the link is part of a thread already linked). This is the internet ... linking is good.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_496b0dfd0100espz.html

From the CN thread

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3502450/Main/3491097



This is probably the same bin at Xi'an.

http://www.aoi.com.cn/2319.htm

RJM: The Center Diopter feature is an interesting one. It shows someone is pushing on mechanical design of the enclosure.

By putting the diopter setting on the right barrel you need to allow that EP to move so the ER on that barrel will vary plus you have to make it waterproof (not a huge deal as it's one side of an IF bin). With center diopter setting it does make the mechanics at the enclosure more complicated (a clutch of some sort for the offset mechanism) but the eyepieces are easier to seal.

After all all the top bin makers (Euro or Japanese) do it this way. They see some advantage to adding it: either ergonomic or just product differentiation.

And it might serve as a "field mark" to identify this "second generation" open bridge Chinese enclosure amongst the different brands

One thing it shows is a continued price evolution. If it's a decent bin that could be interesting (the others from Xi'an aren't bad -- the General Hi IT 8x30 IF porro is a very nice bin according to Holger Merlitz).

There is a possibility that REI might carry these as the REI own brand bins appear to be Xi'an. If they were smart that is!

The product page says, "FMC, Phase Coating".

I am worse off than before I arrived here. B

I can't decide between the new:

1. ZRS 8x42
2. Pro-Optic 8x42
3. Celestron Regal LX 10x42
4. Bushnell legend ultra HD 8x42

5. or save a few bucks and get last years ZRS. I really want all of them! B

I like the idea that Zen Ray is right here where I live.

 

[RJM]

I like the idea that Zen Ray is right here where I live.

Yeah, you stop by his place to see if he has few refurbs laying around in the closet.8-P

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I would try for 2 or 4. The ED glass makes a difference.

The problem is at regular price the Ultra HD aren't in your price range. They were when they were getting sold off for $200 at Christmas. But not right now.

And RJM much as he prefer the Ultra HD hasn't actually tried the other Chinese EDs (they're so off brand) so he has never actually compared them. So he can't actually know which is better. Those that have tried both of them (SteveC and FrankD) both preferred the Chinese EDs to the Ultra HD.

And I even suspect that the Chinese EDs, the Bushnell's and the Vortex low end all come from the same ODM. The difference really is the brand.

The Pro-Optic is a gamble as no one has tried it yet. The own name stuff can be junk (most of the time) but recently a gem appears (Promaster and the original Chinese ED). But Adorama would at least let you return it.

BTW, I've looked through other Xi'an Vision OEMed bins (e.g. the REI bins) and they range from quite good to not so good (mostly going down in size ... the latter was an inexpensive REI 8x28 which is often not good for most makers). Given the recent direction of the market the odds are better that it will be at least decent. A couple of years ago no-one would have said that.

I am worse off than before I arrived here.

That seems to be a primary purpose of the forum. Hang around for a while and the confusion slowly dissipates. After a few bins you'll get the idea. Plus prices are trending down at the lower end and up at the higher end

The other option of course is a secondhand bin for $200.

 

[RJM]

And RJM much as he prefer the Ultra HD hasn't actually tried the other Chinese EDs (they're so off brand) so he has never actually compared them. So he can't actually know which is better. Those that have tried both of them (SteveC and FrankD) both preferred the Chinese EDs to the Ultra HD.

Yes Kevin, but I have also spent a little time with all the best Nikon, Kowa, Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovsky have to offer. I feel VERY confident in my evaluation and have no doubts about the quality of the Legend Ultra HD optics.

All that remains to know is if the mechanicals hold up over time. The jury is still out on that and will be for a few years I'm sure. But at least I get a LIFETIME warranty backed by a well-established GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED sports optics company with its own service and repair facilities.

Rick

 

[stereotruckdriver]

Yes Kevin, but I have also spent a little time with all the best Nikon, Kowa, Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovsky have to offer. I feel VERY confident in my evaluation and have no doubts about the quality of the Legend Ultra HD optics.

All that remains to know is if the mechanicals hold up over time. The jury is still out on that and will be for a few years I'm sure. But at least I get a LIFETIME warranty backed by a well-established GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED sports optics company with its own service and repair facilities.

Rick

Zen-Ray I believe have there own repair facility in Beaverton, OR same as Leupold. Bryce...

 

[RJM]

If anyone thinks ZR is anything more than a cyber webstore being run out of a private residience they are sadly mistaken. Chances are any "repair facility" is actually just an exchange.

To quote the well-known Cory Suddarth, Navy Optical Repairman and bino industry insider: "I have known of several optics retailers in the past that use their customers as the final QC inspector. They use the "exchange" process. After the returned glass gets the "shelf treatment" for a period of time, it gets shipped to the next customer, let them decide. It is after all, cheaper that employing an expert."

Something to think about.
Rick

 

[ZEN-RAY]

"I have known of several optics retailers in the past that use their customers as the final QC inspector.

That sounds like a very expensive proposal. I am not just talking about the tangible cost of the returns or the lost sales. It is the cost of losing some of the would-behappy customers. That's why we perform a mandatory final inspection on every pair of binoculars before shipping them out.

As for retailers, to be fair, it is difficult for them to do any meaningful Q/C on the products they carry. Like you would not expect the Bestbuy to do a thorough Q/C on a Samsung TV in their store. The responsibility should be on the manufacturers.

 

[Fireform]

Zen-Ray I believe have there own repair facility in Beaverton, OR same as Leupold. Bryce...

A friend of mine interned with Leupold as a process engineer in the Oregon plant where their CNC equipment was turning out Golden Ring scope tubes and mechanicals. The two operations are not remotely comparable.

 

[stereotruckdriver]

A friend of mine interned with Leupold as a process engineer in the Oregon plant where their CNC equipment was turning out Golden Ring scope tubes and mechanicals. The two operations are not remotely comparable.

Fireform, my point was that Zen and Leupold both have repair facility's in Beaverton, OR not that there was any affiliation between the two! Bryce...

 

[Fireform]

I don't think you understand. Leupold has a manufacturing plant in Beaverton, OR that employs more than 500 people including plenty of engineers. Zen-Ray is a few guys ordering stuff from China and reselling it here. There is no Zen-Ray "repair facility" in the US--they send it back to China and send you a new one from China. The two businesses are comparable only in that both put their logos on boxes containing binoculars.

 

[birdazzLED]

For me, it's the same with LED flashlights. I'd rather have several quality Chinese made LED flashlights than an overpriced under-performing Surefire. One difference though is one can order direct from the manufacturer in China and they also honor their warranty - it's just a matter of distance and shipping time.

 

[Steve C]

I don't think you understand. Leupold has a manufacturing plant in Beaverton, OR that employs more than 500 people including plenty of engineers. Zen-Ray is a few guys ordering stuff from China and reselling it here. There is no Zen-Ray "repair facility" in the US--they send it back to China and send you a new one from China. The two businesses are comparable only in that both put their logos on boxes containing binoculars.

I'm not sure you quite understand either. I agree that they certainly are no Leupold, or Vortex either. But...the head man at ZR is a trained Opto-Mechanical Engineer with a degree from UCLA. He can take apart and reassemble a binocular, or talk focal lengths, glass types, or binocular design parameters as well as anyone else. When he "orders" a run of binoculars from whatever of the factories he uses, it is with full understanding of how the specifications he requested work together, and how to put them together to give him a product he feels comfortable selling. He has even had a prototype or two in hand to see how things work before he goes ahead. It looks to me like he has quite a bit of pull with the factory. There are a lot of established brand names in the optics industry (maybe even a couple of Leupold Green Rings)that do the same thing. But they're OK?

The 7x36 both you and NDHunter/Farmboy1 had were two binoculars he did dissect piece by piece looking for what was wrong and so he would have some basis to talk to the factory other than "Here please fix these for me. Fireform and NDHunter say these things stink".

Putting them down as it is somehow a bad thing for somebody to actually have the gall to start a new enterprise in an established industry and putting them off as nothing more than internet product hawkers, is a gross oversimplification. It is also a bit insulting it would seem.

 

[stereotruckdriver]

I don't think you understand. Leupold has a manufacturing plant in Beaverton, OR that employs more than 500 people including plenty of engineers. Zen-Ray is a few guys ordering stuff from China and reselling it here. There is no Zen-Ray "repair facility" in the US--they send it back to China and send you a new one from China. The two businesses are comparable only in that both put their logos on boxes containing binoculars.

Do you have proof about Zen? I know I sent a binocular to them with a broken eyecup, recieved said binocular back being fixed? Also why would you send said binocular to Zen Ray repair Beaverton, OR and not to where they wharehouse there stuff in Portland, OR? Just curious since you are all knowing! By the way fwiw I have been buying Leupold Products for 30+ years and happen to have a couple of people I know work for them. My cousin for one, just happens I have toured there whole facility more than once! Thank You! Bryce...

 

[stereotruckdriver]

Zen-Ray Optics
PO BOX 91424
Portland, OR 97291
Repair Department
2850 SW Cedar Hills Blvd, STE 356
Beaverton, OR 97005 If anybody is curious?

 

[stereotruckdriver]

Do you have proof about Zen? I know I sent a binocular to them with a broken eyecup, recieved said binocular back being fixed? Also why would you send said binocular to Zen Ray repair Beaverton, OR and not to where they wharehouse there stuff in Portland, OR? Just curious since you are all knowing! By the way fwiw I have been buying Leupold Products for 30+ years and happen to have a couple of people I know work for them. My cousin for one, just happens I have toured there whole facility more than once! Thank You! Bryce...

Also anybody in the know who has experience with Leupold Wind River optics knows it is common practice for Leupold just to replace a Binocular with a new one when it comes to warranty issues or service! So what's the big deal if Zen does the same? The fact of the matter is I was glad Zen acctually fixed the glass I sent in and had it returned like new in a couple of day's. Granted Leupold would have sent me another (new one) in a couple of day's! So why the bashing? And trying to belittle someone? We all have our opinions and that's why forum's are good, there's a wealth of knowledge to be shared. No need to get on a High Horse!!! Bryce...

 

[NDhunter]

Steve. C (Quote)
[The 7x36 both you and NDHunter/Farmboy1 had were two binoculars he did dissect piece by piece looking for what was wrong and so he would have some basis to talk to the factory other than "Here please fix these for me. Fireform and NDHunter say these things stink".

Steve C:

I see you've included me in the discussion of the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2.
First off I was one who pointed out the problem that I saw with the glare,
flare, problem with edges, or whatever and brought it out to this Forum.

Another reviewer, Holger Merlitz, did a formal review of the optic, also clearly
brought out the same observation.

The company also acknowledged to me that they had seen things similar.

Now it seems you are saying that I used the word "stink" in my comments and that is not the case.

What you may have missed here or have overlooked is that the company,
did a redesign, by adding a baffle, to help correct this condition.

Be careful in your comments here as this was not proper. :smoke:

You should be grateful to reviewers that may point out some deficiencies
in their observations.

I commended Zen Ray in a previous post for the redesign.

Jerry

 

[Steve C]

ND

I meant nothing derogatory to you by that post. I simply meant to state that yours and Fireform's binoculars were disassembled by Zen Ray. It was Fireform's contention they have no ability to do that, and simply sent them back to China for a replacement, based on no other knowledge than the statement that a couple of customers didn't like them. My choice of adjective may have been a bit colorful, so for that and including mention of your binocular, I offer an apology.

The reason they took those two apart was that he took both of you at your word and went looking for the problem. Both of your descriptions were concise an to the point and you carried the day there. I am very aware you were the first one to jump on the flare problem. To you and those who did, the rest of us probably should say thanks. Otherwise the problem might have gone on far longer than it did.

Holger Merlitz also observed in an update to the same review, that the problem was essentially removed by the fix. Yes, it was a slight design change. I never said otherwise. Point is, ZR took steps to fix it. I suppose we can both agree to commend them on that action (I hope).