My first alpha binoculars (1 Viewer)

[Hampus]

Hi,

I’m about to take a big leap and invest in my first pair of alpha bins. I’m not going to ask what model or make is the best, this versus that or the like. I know it’s subjective and the best thing to do is try them out in reality; which I will do in the near future.

I’ve narrowed my choices down to the Leica NV 8x42 or the Swarovski NL pure 8x42. From reading the forum manically the last couple of weeks, 8x seems to be the most favoured starting point. I’ll be using them mainly for birding, general nature observation and hunting.

The only experience I have with premium optics comes from hunting, where I use Swarovski scopes. Since I’m inexperienced with binoculars, I’d appreciate some tips on what to look out for when comparing them.

It’s a substantial amount of money, thus it feels a bit scary if I end up with a sub-par example.
How do I identify a good example of the model? How can I tell if it’s a bad example? Any general tips you can offer an amateur looking to buy his first “real” bins will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Dennis Mau]

How important is a large FOV to you? If it is, and you want an alpha, you have two choices, the NL or the SF. With all the melting armor issues, eye cups breaking, objective covers falling off, Field Pro attachments falling off because they are glued on and cases fading, I think I would stay away from Swarovski until they get all those issues corrected. I would seriously look at the Zeiss SF 8x42 or SF 8x32 because all they are not perfect, they don't have as many problems as the Swarovski's. Also, look at the Zeiss SFL 8x40 and Nikon HG 8x42. They are both near alpha quality in a much lighter and compact package at a much lower price tag.

 

[Hampus]

How important is a large FOV to you? If it is, and you want an alpha, you have two choices, the NL or the SF. With all the melting armor issues, eye cups breaking, Field Pro attachments falling off because they are glued on and cases fading, I think I would stay away from Swarovski until they get all those issues corrected. I would seriously look at the Zeiss SF 8x42 or SF 8x32 because all they are not perfect, they don't have as many problems as the Swarovski's.

FOV is not my top priority. I got the chance to look through the SF a couple of weeks ago but didn’t have any of the other competitors at hand.

That’s why I’m going on a trip to Stockholm, I’ve spoken to a dealer there who’s got all three to compare.

 

[ads]

As with most products, it's a curve of diminishing returns with price. Definitely don't pay full retail price. The last pages of the binocular bargains thread on here often has some excellent deals on new binoculars.

You can also buy used binoculars for a hefty discount, especially discontinued models, but that adds risk and uncertainty.

I agree starting with the 8x42 format (or 8x32 format).

 

[Isthatascratch?]

FOV is not my top priority. I got the chance to look through the SF a couple of weeks ago but didn’t have any of the other competitors at hand.

That’s why I’m going on a trip to Stockholm, I’ve spoken to a dealer there who’s got all three to compare.

I definitely prefer the NL 8x42 and have no issues with armour or the fieldpro attachment. I’ve had the SF and (for me and although brilliant) it is pipped by the Swarovski. Best to give them a try and enjoy the process.

 

[Hermann]

FOV is not my top priority. I got the chance to look through the SF a couple of weeks ago but didn’t have any of the other competitors at hand.

That’s why I’m going on a trip to Stockholm, I’ve spoken to a dealer there who’s got all three to compare.

You might also want to have a look at the Zeiss Conquest HDX. Very decent optics at a (much) lower price. And very robust.

Hermann

 

[simpletonsnowman]

I’ll be using them mainly for birding, general nature observation and hunting.

How often do you expect to use them for hunting vs birding? When you use them for hunting, will you be using a tripod? Birders tend to lean 8x, but 10x is still very common. Meanwhile, hunters seem to strongly prefer the higher magnifications: 10x, 12x, or even 15x. From my limited understanding anyway, I'm not a hunter.

I know you said FOV is not your top priority, but one of the NL's standout features is the huge, industry-topping FOV, which is bigger even than many premium 8x binos. If you go with those, and plan to use them for hunting as well as birding, I would personally recommend the 10x as a better all-rounder for your use cases.

 

[Patudo]

How do I identify a good example of the model? How can I tell if it’s a bad example? Any general tips you can offer an amateur looking to buy his first “real” bins will be greatly appreciated.

Fortunately, sample variation should be quite small at that price point. But if you are really good friends with your dealer, you might be able to persuade him to open up four or five boxes to let you choose the one you like best (good luck!)...

In general when trying a binocular I look to see how steadily I can hold it (steadiness being very important for my birding), how easy the controls (focus wheel especially) are to operate, how solid the eyecup settings are. If you are birding in situations where it's important to be fast on the bird (woodland etc) you would want to get a feel for how well the binocular "points" and how quickly you can get a target in focus (which is a combination of easy eye placement and speed of focus). You don't need to have birds around to test this, just pick random targets at different distances and see how quickly you can cover them.

On the optical side I check for sharpness (although most upper tier binoculars are very good in this respect nowadays). Detail at distance is important for my birding and is the toughest test, but can be dispensed with if most of your birding is quite close in (say 1km or less). But you also want to get a sense of less definable things, such as how comfortable it feels looking through it. I suppose you would want to see if the way the binocular showed colours was pleasing to your eye. Generally speaking an easy and effortless view, with a large "sweet spot", and a package/controls that fits your hands well and feel natural to use, are much to be desired. A binocular like that will normally be more effective than one that boasts ultimate sharpness, brightness or field of view that is awkward to handle and fiddly to look through. In saying that, I have still somehow ended up with some binoculars whose handling I dislike, but I was aware of those things when I bought them and thought their good points outweighed the bad. (it helped that I also wasn't paying alpha prices!)

The more time you can spend with your prospective choices, in different conditions, the better. It does help if you have some meaningful experience with other binoculars to make comparisons with, but it's not totally necessary. It's worth looking at the tier below alpha (like the Zeiss Conquest and that class of binocular) as they offer a lot while being a lot less costly. And if your dealer has given you lots of time to try a wide variety of binoculars, try to do something to make that time and trouble worthwhile. Imagine how you'd feel if you did that for a client and he went off to get the cheapest possible deal from Amazon or Ebay...

 

[tenex]

Try to use each model outside the shop door in good light, if they'll let you. Make sure you have the diopter and hinge set properly for you. Be sure you can tell when your intended target snaps into focus. Pan with each (scan slowly side to side) and make sure that feels comfortable and natural. The handling will vary somewhat, and even colors may differ slightly, so just see which you like best. NL and SF maintain sharpness all the way to the edge, others don't; think about whether that matters to you. Do try 10x42 also as it's the most popular magnification overall, and you have multiple uses in mind. Good luck!

 

[Rg548]

With your lack of experience with optics, as you point out, I would dabble in the second hand market for a bit.
Look at The Birders Store, Focal Point Optics, and especially Ace Optics.
All warrant their 2nd hand gear and whilst I'm not 100% sure, I think they will send abroad.

You could potentailly make a very expensive mistake taking a gamble!!! It's your money of course.

I'm not a fan of SFL's, I find them too middle ground, but they are very good.... I'd probably either save money and go Conquest HDX, or go the full fat SF.
Ultravids are 'bombers'.... just awesome optics that work and last.... NV's left me a tad disappointed for the money...but they ARE incredible.
Pures, well.... as I'm not a 'huge FOV' or 'field flattener' fanatic, I would take the stalwart EL's.... still amazing today. You will pay a fortune for the Pures' flat wide view... if it's not a priority... well thats a lot of money wasted.

Best all round binos i've looked through, ticking pretty much all boxes (FOR ME !!!)... is the Zeiss HT. So i bought them, and have yet to be swayed to go elsewhere. They are an assualt on the senses.
Those are available for just over the 1k mark, as are EL's, Ultravids etc on the 2nd hand market.
When you have settled a bit, you can pull the trigger on an 'alpha' pair with a bit more confidence, and knowledge.

You should know straight away when you look through a bad pair, your eyes won't be full relaxed if the collimation is out, and you will feel your eye muscles move when you take the binos away, but make sure you take time to adjust dioptre setting.

Anyway....
NV's or Pures.... well you won't be disappointed with either let's be honest.
Of the two, I'd go NV's, I think Leica make exquisite optics.

 

[Hampus]

As with most products, it's a curve of diminishing returns with price. Definitely don't pay full retail price. The last pages of the binocular bargains thread on here often has some excellent deals on new binoculars.

You can also buy used binoculars for a hefty discount, especially discontinued models, but that adds risk and uncertainty.

I agree starting with the 8x42 format (or 8x32 format).

Thanks you for your input. I'm keeping an eye on the used market as well.

 

[Hampus]

You might also want to have a look at the Zeiss Conquest HDX. Very decent optics at a (much) lower price. And very robust.

Hermann

That's sound advice Hermann, unfortunetly for my own good I tend to live by the "but once cry once" philosophy. But I'll check out some cheaper models as well to decide if the difference in optical quality justifies the price difference.

 

[Hampus]

How often do you expect to use them for hunting vs birding? When you use them for hunting, will you be using a tripod? Birders tend to lean 8x, but 10x is still very common. Meanwhile, hunters seem to strongly prefer the higher magnifications: 10x, 12x, or even 15x. From my limited understanding anyway, I'm not a hunter.

I know you said FOV is not your top priority, but one of the NL's standout features is the huge, industry-topping FOV, which is bigger even than many premium 8x binos. If you go with those, and plan to use them for hunting as well as birding, I would personally recommend the 10x as a better all-rounder for your use cases.

It will probably be used more frequently during hunting and thereby without a tripod. The environment where I'm hunting is mostly dense woodland biotope and that's why I'm leaning towards 8x, but I will try the 10x side by side.

I have read a lot about the FOV of the NL and it sounds intriguing, but I must admit something about the Leica NV just makes me want it... I will try to make the sound decision once the day comes. Thanks a lot for your input.

 

[Hampus]

Fortunately, sample variation should be quite small at that price point. But if you are really good friends with your dealer, you might be able to persuade him to open up four or five boxes to let you choose the one you like best (good luck!)...

In general when trying a binocular I look to see how steadily I can hold it (steadiness being very important for my birding), how easy the controls (focus wheel especially) are to operate, how solid the eyecup settings are. If you are birding in situations where it's important to be fast on the bird (woodland etc) you would want to get a feel for how well the binocular "points" and how quickly you can get a target in focus (which is a combination of easy eye placement and speed of focus). You don't need to have birds around to test this, just pick random targets at different distances and see how quickly you can cover them.

On the optical side I check for sharpness (although most upper tier binoculars are very good in this respect nowadays). Detail at distance is important for my birding and is the toughest test, but can be dispensed with if most of your birding is quite close in (say 1km or less). But you also want to get a sense of less definable things, such as how comfortable it feels looking through it. I suppose you would want to see if the way the binocular showed colours was pleasing to your eye. Generally speaking an easy and effortless view, with a large "sweet spot", and a package/controls that fits your hands well and feel natural to use, are much to be desired. A binocular like that will normally be more effective than one that boasts ultimate sharpness, brightness or field of view that is awkward to handle and fiddly to look through. In saying that, I have still somehow ended up with some binoculars whose handling I dislike, but I was aware of those things when I bought them and thought their good points outweighed the bad. (it helped that I also wasn't paying alpha prices!)

The more time you can spend with your prospective choices, in different conditions, the better. It does help if you have some meaningful experience with other binoculars to make comparisons with, but it's not totally necessary. It's worth looking at the tier below alpha (like the Zeiss Conquest and that class of binocular) as they offer a lot while being a lot less costly. And if your dealer has given you lots of time to try a wide variety of binoculars, try to do something to make that time and trouble worthwhile. Imagine how you'd feel if you did that for a client and he went off to get the cheapest possible deal from Amazon or Ebay...

Wow, you really pinpointed exactly what I had in mind when i posted. I'll probably make a shortlist out of everything you mentioned and bring with me into the shop. Huge thanks!

When it comes to quality items and service I'm happy to pay a premium, I assure you I'll make it worthwhile for the dealer

 

[Hampus]

Try to use each model outside the shop door in good light, if they'll let you. Make sure you have the diopter and hinge set properly for you. Be sure you can tell when your intended target snaps into focus. Pan with each (scan slowly side to side) and make sure that feels comfortable and natural. The handling will vary somewhat, and even colors may differ slightly, so just see which you like best. NL and SF maintain sharpness all the way to the edge, others don't; think about whether that matters to you. Do try 10x42 also as it's the most popular magnification overall, and you have multiple uses in mind. Good luck!

Thanks a lot. I will definitely keep your advice in mind before I make my decision. 8x vs 10x will probably be hard since 8x seems preferably for birding but I see the advantages with 10x also. I guess its also dependent on where you live.

 

[Isthatascratch?]

Thanks a lot. I will definitely keep your advice in mind before I make my decision. 8x vs 10x will probably be hard since 8x seems preferably for birding but I see the advantages with 10x also. I guess its also dependent on where you live.

I agree, he should write a book!!

If you can try in strong sunlight also, looking to one side of the sun, with the sun to the side etc to see how they work with you.

One big one for me is viewing the creature with a strong backlight.. how well the bird or subject is clear, particularly the colours. It’s really quite astonishing what you can discern what it is against a very very bright blue sky etc.

 

[Viraj]

Thanks a lot. I will definitely keep your advice in mind before I make my decision. 8x vs 10x will probably be hard since 8x seems preferably for birding but I see the advantages with 10x also. I guess its also dependent on where you live.

Personally, I would choose the NL if it's x10 or the NV if it's x8. Lately, I've been really tempted to try the NV in x8 to see for myself, how much better is it compared to the NL in terms of saturation, contrast, and resolution? Are the differences truly significant, or just marginal?

 

[hopster]

I agree that 8x42 is a good all-around choice and that the Noctivid and NL Pure are both excellent in different ways. I would prefer them to the SF. I personally have the Noctivid in 8x and in terms of central sharpness, contrast and accurate but vibrant colours I don't think it can be beaten, nor on build quality. You'll need to get the eye position just right though in order to get the best out of it.

I am not someone who cares about a huge FOV or perfect field edges otherwise it would have been a tougher call between NV and the NL. Be aware of the ongoing issues about armour degradation (quite common it seems) and now connectors failing (more rare). They also have a tendency towards glare looking towards the sun or bright skies, at least worse than the NV, and this is something that needs to be taken into account.

I second the recommendation above for a used Zeiss HT and the Japanese shop in Osaka is still selling the Nikon EDG 8x42 at a great price if you can live with the (small) risk of problems because the long-term future of servicing is uncertain.

I may be about to migrate from the Noctivid to a 7x as my main birding binocular, and if so financial realities might force me to sell the NV which is less than 2 years old and in perfect condition. If so, I'll let you know.

 

[hopster]

Personally, I would choose the NL if it's x10 or the NV if it's x8. Lately, I've been really tempted to try the NV in x8 to see for myself, how much better is it compared to the NL in terms of saturation, contrast, and resolution? Are the differences truly significant, or just marginal?

Colours and contrast, quite noticeable in my opinion. Also more glare resistant and the sharpest in the centre of any 8x42 I have looked through - really incredible detail available. But if you like a huge AFOV and super-sharp FOV edges you may miss that, and there will be more lateral green-purple CA on very high contrast edges than the NL.

 

[Isthatascratch?]

Personally, I would choose the NL if it's x10 or the NV if it's x8. Lately, I've been really tempted to try the NV in x8 to see for myself, how much better is it compared to the NL in terms of saturation, contrast, and resolution? Are the differences truly significant, or just marginal?

It’s all personal preference.. I bought a NL 8x42 and a Trinovid HD 8x42 for used for less price than a new NL or NV as I like the choice of viewing colour. Unfortunately (to me) the NV was just not worth the asking price on spec but could leave a crater if you dropped it and engineered to perfection.

I do know where there is a used (but still with 10 year warranty) NV 10x42 from a dealer in the U.K. that is virtually mint and boxed for a decent saving!