Motmot
Eduardo Amengual
This thread brings memories of this similar and also interesting one:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=270531
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=270531
And one quick question. I'll be buying Sparrows and Buntings by Byers soon. What really is the difference between 1995 version and 2013? And is it ok for me to ask this question here or is there another forum where people ask questions about books?
It's still described as a 1st edition which usually means it's just a reprint with no changes.
Andy
Many years ago, again with a bunting, I was convinced that I saw a male Yellowhammer half the size of the other yellowhammers I had seen that day. I am more experienced today (then about 800 sp life list, today about 3x that) - and I am today not sure that it was not the strange light conditions that day that made me mistake what might just have been a normal size bird. This only to illustrate that a reasonably experienced observer can still be outdone by the conditions, there does not have to be a camera included to induce errors.
Niels
Hi Harry,Hi all,
Murat, I accept the points you made in your post addressed to me, but I was busy all day yesterday and am only getting around to responding now!
I actually doubt that I've ever seen clanceyi Corn Bunting. The range of that taxon is given as western Ireland (where the species is now extinct) and western Scotland (where I have never seen Corn Buntings). In theory, the one vagrant bird that I have seen here, on Cape Clear Island in 2003, may have been of this form, but it may just as equally been a nominate bird. I concede that most of my personal Yellowhammer experience is based on caliginosa here in Ireland, but I have seen quite a few citrinella also, and I took into account before commenting how greyish some female-type erythrogenys can be (perhaps mainly 1st-winter females?). I recall Dick Forsman posting images of grey and white wintering Yellowhammers from Finland that perhaps could have belonged to that taxon. I can't recall if I saw any Yellowhammers in central Asia, I can only remember a few singing male Pine Buntings (phenotypically textbook birds) outside Astana.
I also concede that, as the images are far from perfect...and this is not meant as a criticism of the photographer...then there is an element of uncertainty introduced into the equation where it comes to me or anyone else making a comment. We may be influenced by 'false impressions', as it were. My main aim, originally, was to give my reasons as to why the bird can't have been a Pine Bunting, and in that sense alone, one could say that it doesn't matter which of two presumably common species in Turkey was involved. But it's always worthwhile trying to figure a puzzle out, even if one's best efforts are ultimately in vain then much useful discussion can take place. We have all been given a timely reminder of erythrogenys Yellowhammer, a bird taxon that presumably could stray even to western Europe...if (phenotypically good) Pine Buntings can get here, then perhaps they could also, and they could be a source of
When I made my comments about the bird in the original image lacking obvious yellow fringes to the remiges, I was taking erythrogenys into account as well, based on, among other things, the images of that form posted on this thread. Even those seem to have (faint) yellow tones to these fringes, which the subject bird seems not to, though, again, the usual proviso applies that the apparent colour tones of those shots may not be truly representative of the actual appearance of the bird (and the actual appearance itself would depend on ambient light, of course).
I ask the original photographer, in the spirit of trying to seek the truth here, not to be deemed 'right' or 'wrong' or make a competition out of this, if there are any shots showing the bird's tertials head on (maybe the whole bird with its back turned to the camera, say)? After all, Corn Bunting and Yellowhammer consistently differ from each other on tertial pattern, and this one feature might enable us all to identify the bird with confidence. In addition, are there any pics showing the front of the breast? The streaks on a Corn Bunting's breast often coalesce to form a distinct spot, and, if present, this would also exclude Yellowhammer
I can't make a good judgement call on the colour of the lower mandible, the images are just too poor, which is a shame as that is also a very useful feature, as you know.
Regards,
Harry
You can at least write off the experts for Little and Reed Bunting (probably even for Pine Bunting) as many obvious characteristics and general appearance don't fit these species at all. Eventhough I'm still in for Corn Bunting I might still be persuaded that it's a Yellowhammer or Cirl Bunting.I had an opportunity to learn the ideas of bird experts by this photo from here, bto, ebird, birdtrack, birdguides even Instagram and more. Some experts said corn bunting, some experts said little bunting, some experts said pine bunting, some experts said yellowhammer, some experts said cirl bunting, reed bunting. Who is the expert? I want to learn that much more than the which bunting is this. So sorry everyone from now on im laughing and say one of remaining ones. Rustic bunting! New deal?
Couldn't follow the discussion for a few days... Wow it has become a great threat! So much could be said, but unfortunately not much time now.
One remark concerning the second photo from the bird that was posted (bird looking away from photographer). I believe despite the poor quality one can clearly see a quite narrow lighter brown crown-stripe (framed by darker brown lateral crown-stripes). Assuming it is not an artefact, shouldn't this exclude Corn Bunting as can (not) be seen at the in-hand pictures posted earlier in this threat? Can a Yellowhammer have such a prominent crown-stripe?