New Kowa Scopes? (1 Viewer)

[henry link]

I agree that 60x is too low to take full advantage of the resolution of a good 88mm scope. A scope of that aperture should continue to show smaller details up to about 100x. At the moment the only way to get more than 60x with the new Kowas is to use the Kowa 82mm zoom eyepiece(66x), the 60/66mm zoom (72x) or place something like the Zeiss 3X monocular behind the eyepiece (60-180X). An adapter for astro eyepieces like Zeiss and Swaro would be welcome.

Eagle Optics told me the TSN-883 is in short supply. They don't plan to actually stock it for now, so it's only available as a special order with a two week wait for delivery. I have several questions about the design, so I'm not willing to order one without trying it. I would particularly like to know what kind of prism is being used in the angled version. I don't like the system Kowa has used before (Porro followed by semi-pentaprism). Also the focal ratio is very low (f/5.7). I think a triplet objective is required for really low aberrations at that focal ratio, but Kowa doesn't tell us whether the objective is a doublet or a triplet. What I would really like to see is one of those beautiful 3-D cutaway illustrations of the innards like the ones Swaro and Zeiss provide, with everything; prisms, focuser, eyepiece design and objective design visible for all to see.

It is a bit odd that Kowa are sticking with Fluorite in the 88mm scope. Nearly all other telescope makers (including even Takahashi) are switching to one of the glass types that have essentally the same characteristics as Fluorite, like FPL53. The 883 would probably cost $200-$300 less if it used FPL53 or an equivalent, with no significant decrease in optical performance.

P.S. Stu posted while I was writing. Yes, a little more magnification is available from the other Kowa zooms, but IMO still not enough to take full advantage of the aperture. The new zoom may also be optically superior to the old ones. Let's hope so, since it costs over $500!

 

[John Russell]

I don't like the system Kowa has used before (Porro followed by semi-pentaprism).
Henry,
I presume this is similar to what Leica have used on their 77mm scopes. I saw a straight cutaway example at Photokina. It had Porro prisms (one movable for focussing) and a periscope prism in front of the eyepiece. When I asked what purpose the latter served, I was told that it was to provide the same length of light path as the angled scope. Neither the angled nor the straight would seem to be a rational design.
I used to work in the automobile industry and have seen plenty of "camels" (horses designed by committees) from some highly respected manufacturers.
The new Kowa scopes were also shown at Photokina and looked good mechanically and optically though I couldn't give a detailed assessment having only seen them indoors without an opportunity to make comparisons. Strange that they should offer 8 options, 77mm/88mm, straight/angled and achromatic/apochromatic.

Regards,

John

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

I too have wondered about the extent of the Kowa range and queried if it meant that the 82 series would be dropped, but this does not seem to be case. I can only think that Kowa are trying to cover every eventuality and customer needs. As for the internals must admit never really worried about them as long as the image was spot on. For me image is of paramount consideration and that is the prime consideration. Things like focus wheels, weight, size come after that.

 

[normjackson]

Just stumbled on the new Kowa scopes as offered at Warehouseexpress.
Priced at a grand for the 77mm Prominar model (about same as 77mm Leica Apo model) and £1250 for 88mm model. So effectively Austro/German prices but not really more.

 

[PYRTLE]

Heard today from optics company taking orders, that the 88mm bodies are now delayed till early January'07 - looks like a miserable Christmas for anyone who thought Santa was bringing them one! Let alone anyone who's ordered one for early delivery. Seasons Greetings

 

[Swissboy]

Heard today from optics company taking orders, that the 88mm bodies are now delayed till early January'07 - looks like a miserable Christmas for anyone who thought Santa was bringing them one! Let alone anyone who's ordered one for early delivery. Seasons Greetings

I think with such new items it is always difficult to get everything ready till a certain deadline. In the end, the temporary frustration will be peanuts if one gets a perfect scope. The misery at Christmas would definitely be greater if the unpacked gadget shows some flaws. Thus, getting a gift voucher is not that bad a thing. It's always nice to have something to look forward to! Though I agree that patience is not one of man's strengths.

Basically, the optimal strategy would be to wait till the initial flaws have been detected and corrected. But by then, a next generation of whatever it is we want may already tickle our fancy.

 

[pmhowlett]

The scopes were on the Pyser stand at the bird fair as well - locked away but they were more than happy to set them up for you to look through. I'm not a great fan of zooms myself, even with the top makes it gives the impression of looking down a tube rather than filling your field of view. I didn't think the Kowa zoom was appreciably better than a a Leica or Zeiss but the 30x wide was stunning. Also bear in mind that the 773 is about the same length as a TSN 600 and only a couple of hundred grams heavier so a very impressive product and I think much more compact and lighter than most other 77mm scopes.

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

AS for the zoom, it was this eyepiece that was on the Kowa 883 at Infocus, Martin Mere and alongside a Zeiss 85 with Zoom. IMO the Kowa zoom was better, clearer round the edges and good natural colour. But not everyone's eyes are the same that is why when choosing optics try out as many as you can to find the one that suits you before parting with your money.

 

[PYRTLE]

Have this week managed to look through a 773 with the associated new style x30 wide - my first impressions are that the image performance is very good. There are some impressive characteristics such as angle of view/ edge to edge etc etc. However I'm not exactly convinced on the focusing system - there are personal dislikes..good idea but the wheel had some take up / slack that was irksome. The eyepiece was fine.
Personally I do believe this is a serious contender against the current 80mm high flyers. But I'm not changing my swaro 65 HD yet.

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

Bear in mind the 773 has ED glass, the 883 has flourite crystal.

 

[Quacker]

Seems like the more the new Kowa is talked about, the better the Nikon ED 82 becomes :clap:

As Pete hints at, however good it is, it will not be twice the scope than the ED82 is.

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

Don't really agree on that Quacker, old mate. Although I acknowledge the quality of the main lens of the ED82, have to say I have never really liked the scope at all. The eyepiece could be a lot better IMO only really as good as my old TSN zoom eyepiece and I really dislike the focusing ring much prefer smaller dials like the Kowa, Zeis, Leica and Opticron. Have to stress this is just my view before I am inundated with comments from ED82 fans.

By the way I remember when Swaro really hiked the prices on their scopes, it did not put customers off so hardly think the Kowa price will either but make no mistake the Kowa is very good. Have a read of Mike Alibone's article in the December Birdwatch mag.

 

[dogfish]

Don't really think the Alibone piece in Birdwatch tells us very much at all. Only a review comparing a new scope closely with the existing top of the range scopes would give us the information we need. We won't get that from Birdwatch I'm afraid. We'll get that from Alula eventually, I hope.

Sean

 

[kabsetz]

For those interested, I noticed that optics4birding.com has posted a review of the Kowa 883. Alula will have a review hopefully in issue 1/2007, although the schedule is a bit tight. Usually, Twentse vogelvergroep (www.tvwg.nl) has done reviews pretty quickly when something interesting has been introduced by Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski or Kowa, but a couple of days ago when I checked they did not have anything on these yet.

Kimmo

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

Thank you Kabsetz for putting that link in to an independent review of the new Kowa scope which says in a great deal of more detail what I have been saying that this is without doubt the best scope out there. It may not have the preferred badge but it is the best.

By the way if you buy this scope and want to digiscope don't spend about £300 on the Kpowa adapter. I can tell you from looking at the scope and the threaded ring on the eyepiece an SRB-Griturn swing away adapter will work very well on this scope and at a fraction of the Kowa price.

 

[dogfish]

Thank you Kabsetz for putting that link in to an independent review of the new Kowa scope which says in a great deal of more detail what I have been saying that this is without doubt the best scope out there. It may not have the preferred badge but it is the best.

Robert, I take it you have compared it to the other top of the range scopes. How does the zoom perform against Swaro, Leica, Zeiss etc?

Sean

 

[Robert L Jarvis]

Beats the Zeiss, no question about that and all though I am going from memory on the other scopes the Kowa is better than them. But wasn't the Zeiss rated above the others and therefore the Kowa is better. Believe me if you get a try of one you will see it is good.

 

[henry link]

Thanks for the reference, Kimmo, even though this is the kind of "review" that makes me crazy. A string of superlatives (from a dealer!) with no corroborating measurements. Glad to hear the Alula review is on the way.

 

[karmantra]

Thanks for the reference, Kimmo, even though this is the kind of "review" that makes me crazy. A string of superlatives (from a dealer!) with no corroborating measurements. Glad to hear the Alula review is on the way.

I agree with Henry--a 'review' from a dealer who sells the product is always suspect to me, sounds more like the review is intended to sell, rather than evaluate. I want specifics & side-by-side comparisons, and Alula's reviews do that!

 

[Paul Jarvis]

I agree with Henry--a 'review' from a dealer who sells the product is always suspect to me, sounds more like the review is intended to sell, rather than evaluate. I want specifics & side-by-side comparisons, and Alula's reviews do that!

Just read the review, very good imo and repeats what has been said already.

They did do a side-by-side comparison with other top of the range scopes its just that they could'nt name them for political reasons. As the review says they brought them out off the shelf because they are a DEALER who sell other scopes as well as new kowas.

The review also says the new 773 and 883 blew the others away in the same class, so this would suggest the kowas are better.

One final point I wish to make is, if this was a sales pitch why not push the best scope on the market and sell as many as you can.

If you get the chance try it for self seeing is believing.