New Spotting Scope (2 Viewers)

[Martin Devine]

Hello,
I am new to bird watching and have been having a great time over the last few weeks out and about with my binoculars, but feel that a scope would be better suited for some of the places that I visit as they are quite open costal areas and large inland waterways and the birds can sometimes be a bit further out especially at low tide.
I am a bit lost as to what size and make of scope to go for and was wondering if anyone would care to offer advice on what would be suitable and where to buy it?
I am based in Glasgow and I have not managed to find any shops that have display models that I can check out myself.
My budget is not set and I dont mind paying for the right scope as I appreciate quality glass will not come cheap.
Best Regards,
Martin.

 

[wllmspd]

Work out how much weight you’re happy carrying and the sort of birding you want to do. Having a big scope that can reach far is of no use if you don’t want to carry it around. 60mm or so aperture and a power upto around 40x with a reasonably stiff tripod with a fluid head on should show you plenty. Others can chip in with specific models, don’t ignore secondhand as there are several companies selling kit for less than new, I picked up a scope this way.
Many will advise to try before you buy, but sometimes that’s not possible, so I’ve used the varied reactions of people on the forum to help distill which models deliver, which may have issues with glasses wearers, which companies have the best reputation and reliability etc.
Having a scope really opens up birding to see so much more, it’s a shame that more people don’t seem to have one (even amongst birders it seems)

Peter

 

[Martin Devine]

Work out how much weight you’re happy carrying and the sort of birding you want to do. Having a big scope that can reach far is of no use if you don’t want to carry it around. 60mm or so aperture and a power upto around 40x with a reasonably stiff tripod with a fluid head on should show you plenty. Others can chip in with specific models, don’t ignore secondhand as there are several companies selling kit for less than new, I picked up a scope this way.
Many will advise to try before you buy, but sometimes that’s not possible, so I’ve used the varied reactions of people on the forum to help distill which models deliver, which may have issues with glasses wearers, which companies have the best reputation and reliability etc.
Having a scope really opens up birding to see so much more, it’s a shame that more people don’t seem to have one (even amongst birders it seems)

Peter

Thanks Peter.
I am reasonably strong and fit so not overly concerned about the weight.
I am well used to carrying a large DSLR camera and lens plus tripod so know that a scope weighing around 5 to 6 lbs will be ok for me.

 

[Mike Crawley]

Probably most important is to set a budget.
You should budget for a tripod too.

Don't discount second hand stuff, especially while you’re working out how you want to use the 'scope.
I note Wex in Glasgow have some second hand 'scopes so at least you could actually see before you buy, although the chance to use the 'scope would be limited.
I have no idea what this would be like but for example - USED Hawke Endurance ED 20-60x85 Spotting Scope | Wex Photo Video
although generally speaking Hawke equipment is good value for money

After that, it’s really worth searching around for a shop with good outside space, it’s certainly worth a couple of hours driving to get the right equipment.

good luck and don’t forget to let us know how you get on with your search

 

[Martin Devine]

Thanks Mike.
Budget is open as long as I get something I am happy with although experience buying camera equipment tells me that I wont be happy with anything less than top notch so feel that I should buy something premium to start with rather than middle of the road and then having to upgrade at a later date.
I already have tripods and heads/gimbals that will be suitable so I am sorted in that respect.

 

[Mike Crawley]

Fair enough, Martin, there’s masses of choice

 

[Binastro]

Ffordes of Inverness is a long trip, but they usually have large stocks.

Charles Frank is I think no longer in Glasgow.
I bought a lot of optics from them.

Regards,
B.

 

[wllmspd]

Most of the people I go on trips with have Swarovski (65 or 80mm of varying age), with a few 60mm opticrons thrown in.

Peter

 

[Martin Devine]

Ffordes of Inverness is a long trip, but they usually have large stocks.

Charles Frank is I think no longer in Glasgow.
I bought a lot of optics from them.

Regards,
B.

Thanks B.
Ffordes is definitely an option and a nice drive up to Beauly especially if travelling on the A82 rather than the A9.
I googled Charles Frank but they appear to have closed down in 1974 however some of the staff formed Viking Optical who have a shop in Edinburgh so that will be worth a visit.

 

[Martin Devine]

Most of the people I go on trips with have Swarovski (65 or 80mm of varying age), with a few 60mm opticrons thrown in.

Peter

Thanks Peter.
I am leaning towards either the Swarovski 65mm or 85mm ATX at the moment although the BTX eyepiece looks interesting.

 

[Steve Babbs]

Thanks Peter.
I am reasonably strong and fit so not overly concerned about the weight.
I am well used to carrying a large DSLR camera and lens plus tripod so know that a scope weighing around 5 to 6 lbs will be ok for me.

Yep me too but I hate carrying a large scope especially if I want my camera gear too. I get round the problem by having three scopes of different sizes. Which does sound wildly decadent but they have been bought over 20 years. When I had the one it was a 60 or 65mm (I've had a few) and if I were to go back to one that's what I would have again as a compromise between light-gathering and weight.

 

[Martin Devine]

Yep me too but I hate carrying a large scope especially if I want my camera gear too. I get round the problem by having three scopes of different sizes. Which does sound wildly decadent but they have been bought over 20 years. When I had the one it was a 60 or 65mm (I've had a few) and if I were to go back to one that's what I would have again as a compromise between light-gathering and weight.

Thanks Steve.
I probably wont be carrying camera gear and a scope at the same time but I suppose you can never say never.
I am drawn towards the Swarovski ATX because of its modular design and it would be easy and cost effective to have different objective sizes and just use the same eyepiece module but I keep reminding myself that I want to keep it simple and not overcomplicate things like I have in other past times I enjoy so I want to pick one scope which will do everything if possible.

 

[wllmspd]

Several of the people I observe with have scopak or other tripod backpacks so they can be setup rapidly. I just fold the legs and sling the whole lot over my shoulder.

Peter

 

[Martin Devine]

Several of the people I observe with have scopak or other tripod backpacks so they can be setup rapidly. I just fold the legs and sling the whole lot over my shoulder.

Peter

Thanks Peter.
Over the shoulder for me too mostly when using a tripod with my camera gear but occasionally use a sling and find it quite comfortable for longer distances.

 

[jring]

Hi,

with your profile of birding in wetland and near inland waterways, sth. capable of 50x or thereabouts would be recommended. The downward limit in aperture would be 65mm with around 50x... I have a 60mm Kowa which at 60x was usable only in good light.. nowadays it's used at 30x (great in any light) or 48x which is ok unless at dusk or dawn.

Aperture divided by magnification is called exit pupil diameter and 1.3mm is still kinda ok, below that needs good light and less than 1mm is not great for daylight observation - so an ATX 65 at 60x will be a bit dark on an overcast day... 80mm aperture with 60x is more reasonable.

If the scope has a regular zoom as opposed to a wide angle zoom, one should remember that zooming out to lower magnification will usually lead to a vastly reduced apparent field of view of 40 something degrees while the high mag end tends to be at 60 plus degrees... so if the scope is smaller, a regular zoom ep going only up to 50x or so might be actually a good idea...

My last advice would be to try a few scopes... either in brick and mortar stores or by nicely asking fellow birders... so you get a bit of experience what is good and what not so... always try if there is a distinct and easy to find point of best focus at maximum magnification - that is the minimum requirement for me when buying optics... or read up on star testing and bring a diy artificial star and observe at 30m or so.

When you found sth in a brick and mortar store that you liked when trying it, insist on getting the example you tried... bonus points for getting a discount for taking the demo unit...

When buying online, do so only from a reputable dealer with a no-questions asked return policy and thoroughly test the scope inside the return policy. You might try to do some star test images (2-3 rings on either side of focus) and post them here.

Used from a private seller should only be done in person after a thorough test, obviously...

Good luck,

Joachim

 

[Martin Devine]

Hi,

with your profile of birding in wetland and near inland waterways, sth. capable of 50x or thereabouts would be recommended. The downward limit in aperture would be 65mm with around 50x... I have a 60mm Kowa which at 60x was usable only in good light.. nowadays it's used at 30x (great in any light) or 48x which is ok unless at dusk or dawn.

Aperture divided by magnification is called exit pupil diameter and 1.3mm is still kinda ok, below that needs good light and less than 1mm is not great for daylight observation - so an ATX 65 at 60x will be a bit dark on an overcast day... 80mm aperture with 60x is more reasonable.

If the scope has a regular zoom as opposed to a wide angle zoom, one should remember that zooming out to lower magnification will usually lead to a vastly reduced apparent field of view of 40 something degrees while the high mag end tends to be at 60 plus degrees... so if the scope is smaller, a regular zoom ep going only up to 50x or so might be actually a good idea...

My last advice would be to try a few scopes... either in brick and mortar stores or by nicely asking fellow birders... so you get a bit of experience what is good and what not so... always try if there is a distinct and easy to find point of best focus at maximum magnification - that is the minimum requirement for me when buying optics... or read up on star testing and bring a diy artificial star and observe at 30m or so.

When you found sth in a brick and mortar store that you liked when trying it, insist on getting the example you tried... bonus points for getting a discount for taking the demo unit...

When buying online, do so only from a reputable dealer with a no-questions asked return policy and thoroughly test the scope inside the return policy. You might try to do some star test images (2-3 rings on either side of focus) and post them here.

Used from a private seller should only be done in person after a thorough test, obviously...

Good luck,

Joachim

Thank you Joachim.
The information you have provided is very helpful and considering the amount of dull overcast days we get here in Scotland over the winter, I think I will go for the 85mm

 

[Gzoladz74]

Optics development are so mature that the best instrument today will be one of the best in +20 years time, so it is a life time purchase. As you have experience in optics/photography buy the best you can afford. If you go for anything less, you will start feeling an itch to upgrade in a few months.

I would also check reputable shops that sell second had gear, often with 6 months warranty, as you may get a deal. Also there are brands where you can use the same eyepiece in different bodies i.e. my first scope was a 60mm, which I still have, and a few years later I bought an 80mm body, which works great with the eyepiece I bought originally...you may want to explore this option too in case in a few years you feel you need a different body size.

 

[Martin Devine]

Optics development are so mature that the best instrument today will be one of the best in +20 years time, so it is a life time purchase. As you have experience in optics/photography buy the best you can afford. If you go for anything less, you will start feeling an itch to upgrade in a few months.

I would also check reputable shops that sell second had gear, often with 6 months warranty, as you may get a deal. Also there are brands where you can use the same eyepiece in different bodies i.e. my first scope was a 60mm, which I still have, and a few years later I bought an 80mm body, which works great with the eyepiece I bought originally...you may want to explore this option too in case in a few years you feel you need a different body size.

Thank You.
I have more or less made up my mind to go for a Swarovski ATX in 85mm so just need to figure out where to buy it.