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Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

Nikon Monarch HG 8x30 - after 1 year (2 Viewers)

This is what Ive attempted to describe in other places, re my 825 Pockets. Its not just about early morning or late daylight situations, but rather dim light, shadowed places, in the middle of the day. Clarity disappears, and focuser fiddling becomes the game. I acknowledge Chosun has commented on these other posts. My first interpretation was this is the effect of smaller exit pupils, of course in relation to my own pupils status/ability to open.
I will post this link again, since it also describes what Beth is seeing.


Holger Merlitz_Performance of binoculars - fig 6.jpg

You can look at Holger's Fig.6 and map out your various binocular formats to see how they compare. It is remarkable how long the little 8x30 can hold on in comparison. Note that light levels that correspond to looking under canopies /in deep shadows etc come into effect in the daylight lighting level range towards the transition to twilight lighting levels. Here your photopic vision can already be starting to plunge off a cliff in terms of visual acuity.

It pays to read Holger's paper in full too, since he specifies that other factors come into play - such as Fov for example. Blue light transmission levels can also have a noticeable effect (Zeiss HT, Leica UVHD+, [and Swaro SV I'm guessing] perform well here because of their HT glass).


Re:- Visual Acuity
This drops off in response to lighting levels.
We are talking the sharpness of what you see - not the brightness, not the Exit Pupil or whatever - just how sharp YOUR EYES can see. Not binoculars, YOUR EYES.
All of the other things - brightness, EP, transmission curve etc feed into the sharpness you see, but YOUR Visual Acuity is one of the biggest factors in low light.

You can see from Fig.18 that it plunges off a cliff - reducing 10-fold.

KallSpat18.jpg

Read the full exploration here:

I hope this mostly answers the question once and for all 🙂



Chosun 🙅‍♀️
 
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Yes, #3 I think is a bigger factor now than it used to be, unfortunately.

My old Swaro CL 8x30 performed a little better in dim light and of course when I used 7/8 x 42 bins I didn't have any issues to speak of.
The bigger exit pupil is helpful on those dim mornings.

Also, any bino I've used with a moderate or very fast focus seemed to take more fiddling the focuser to get optimal sharpness.
I'd say the MHG has a moderately fast focus speed compared to bins I've owned and tried.
Beth, when light levels drop low enough so that our visual acuity drops dramatically, the view disconnects somewhat from the Exit Pupil size - especially if your own eyesight introduces a whole lot of other aberrations as your pupils dilate as well. Sometimes, what is seen under those low light conditions with a larger Exit Pupil bin is just a relatively brighter view of 'mush' as opposed to sharpening that 'mush' up to any significant degree.

The proviso is that with those larger Exit Pupil bins, if that is achieved by reducing the magnification rather than massively bumping up the objective size (into the 56mm, 63mm+, size etc) ,ie. say in the case of your former 7x42 with a 6mm Exit Pupil - that, that brings a couple of benefits to compensate. Namely the greater Depth of Field of the lower magnification, and the usually, wider Real Field of View. These aid in low light viewing, and Holger even mentions this in the text of his paper. On the downside though, is that the lower magnification gives a smaller image size, which is more difficult to pick up details with lower visual acuity.

The ideal of course is to increase magnification (and stability) , AND Objective size for better low light viewing, but then you know - pesky physics ...... WEIGHT arrrgh !

All of which is to say, that in reality, I don't think you are missing very much at all with your little 8x30. According to Fig. 6 in Holger's paper, the 7x42 only draws level in contrast gain at the start of the twilight zone (deep dark shadows may also have similar lighting levels) and then on into darkness.

What you are losing in ease of eye placement you are making up for in a ~40+% reduction in weight. You could possibly eek out a smidge more optical performance by going to an 8x32 - particularly the Zeiss FL, or Swaro SV, but even then you are looking at a non-insignificant ~5 Oz weight increase from your 8x30. Even better (if it fits with glasses wearers) would be the Kowa 8x33 Genesis XD. Going to the larger, heavier 8x32 Nikon EDG, Zeiss SF or Swaro NL kinda defeats the purpose even more, as they are pushing the lower end of 42mm size and weight.

Still, even with 8x33 we are only faffing about at the edges - the gains will be there over the 8x30 but minimal. It will extend parity with the 7x42 in low light up to about a third of the way through twilight. Far better gains come from going to a 10x42, and really if weight is a factor then the Nikon MHG is the one to beat. Of course a 10x50 is even better, but that's another weight class up again.

All of that is to say that don't think you are missing a massive amount with the 8x30 - it actually holds it's own quite well.

The other point you brought up that made me think, particularly in relation to low light for the first time, was focus speed. Here I was thinking back to my sporting days and how utterly hopeless I was at focusing on things coming towards me - tennis balls, cricket balls etc. Bigger volleyballs I could kinda handle. I was so bad at refocusing on tennis balls that I just gave up and took up squash - didn't matter then that I missed the ball on the way to me - I'd just get it on the way back off the wall ! Normally I like a fast focuser for keeping up with falcons and geewhizzits etc zipping through the woodlands.

However, it got me to thinking that in low light where your visual acuity has plummeted, could a fast focuser (particularly using a shallower dof bin like a 10x42) be too fast ? ie. it would be like those high speed balls coming toward me and my focus accommodation physiology just wouldn't be able to keep up in the low light. It would be interesting to hear from some of the more studied members knowledgeable on the science of physiology on this.

Anyway, I think it's important not too expect to much, or beat ourselves up too much about our eyesight or optics performance in low light. Some things just aren't possible on moving targets in dense cover using highly portable bins.



Chosun 🙅‍♀️
 
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It’s now 2 years this month with the MHG 8x30 and I’ve used only this binocular for the last year. I don’t own any other binoculars right now but do want to buy another.

Looking at my OP I don’t think there’s anything further to add. I’m surprised I’ve been using it for a year without the rubber covering on the focuser. I use my L and R index fingers to turn the wheel in a push and pull fashion. The smooth plastic wheel is too slippery to use with just one finger. I’ve grown used to operating it with both fingers, but sometimes I miss the grip from the rubber. I can’t turn the focuser as quickly without the rubber cover.

I went to a spot this morning and saw a lot of Warblers and other little birds. There was plenty of action especially in the first hour. I felt grateful for the super light weight after raising the bin to my eyes a ton of times over the 2+ hours this morning. I just can’t do a 42mm anymore during active times like this when you have to put the bins up and down constantly. I do miss the larger exit pupil of 8x42 sometimes and wonder if a light weight full size could be an option for occasional use. But I’m mainly looking for 8x32 and still waiting to see if anything new pops up.

So far the little HG has served me well and I’ve enjoyed its compact size, light weight and excellent ergonomics. I can’t really complain about the view. The colors are nice and, at times in certain lighting, the image seems so close to the quality of higher end binos i’ve had. It can be a bit dim on gray days, early morning and dusk. On these occasions I wish for a brighter image. It’s only real flaw IMO is glare which frequently occurs. I’m so used to the bin now I’m able to ignore glare the majority of the time, but there are moments when it’s too intrusive to be ignored.
 
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Beth too bad you did not send them into Nikon to have a new rubber on the focus wheel installed. Additionally to get a much increased view (subjective) one would have to spend much more. Personally I find that 8X30/32 shows me more glare than larger aperture glass, again (subjective).
 
Beth too bad you did not send them into Nikon to have a new rubber on the focus wheel installed. Additionally to get a much increased view (subjective) one would have to spend much more. Personally I find that 8X30/32 shows me more glare than larger aperture glass, again (subjective).
Yep, I couldn’t send it to Nikon because I don’t have a secondary bino yet. Once I buy another I’ll send it in.

Yes, I think you’re right ... the binoculars at around 1k price point where the MHG falls have a high quality view. You have to spend 2-3k to see the difference.
 
Beth, you have noticed the SFL convo here???
Yep it’s definitely intriguing and yesterday I looked at some videos of the SFL.
I’m hoping the Audubon store gets one in so I can try it. It’s a bit more than I prefer to spend but I’m willing to see how I like it if I get the opportunity.

I’d prefer the 1k mark and I’ve been thinking of the Trinovid HD 8x32 since I’m a Leica fan. It seems a bit heavy and big though for 32mm and IPD range not so good (I have narrow IPD) as well as FOV a bit smallish. Still though it’s Leica and I may have try it to see if I like it.
Another one I’ve thought about is Razor HD 8x42 because it’s only 24 ounces and the times I’ve tried them I really liked it. But that was back when it was the Japanese made version. However I’m still more focused on a good 8x32.
I’m not in any rush and would like to see if something new may come out in 2023.
 
Yep it’s definitely intriguing and yesterday I looked at some videos of the SFL.
I’m hoping the Audubon store gets one in so I can try it. It’s a bit more than I prefer to spend but I’m willing to see how I like it if I get the opportunity.

I’d prefer the 1k mark and I’ve been thinking of the Trinovid HD 8x32 since I’m a Leica fan. It seems a bit heavy and big though for 32mm and IPD range not so good (I have narrow IPD) as well as FOV a bit smallish. Still though it’s Leica and I may have try it to see if I like it.
Another one I’ve thought about is Razor HD 8x42 because it’s only 24 ounces and the times I’ve tried them I really liked it. But that was back when it was the Japanese made version. However I’m still more focused on a good 8x32.
I’m not in any rush and would like to see if something new may come out in 2023.
Maybe ironically, I got my SFL view 3000 miles away at the Audubon Shop in Seattle. I thought they were great did a direct comparison with NL832 and have reported I could easily go birding with either or both and enjoy the views.
 
Lately I've noticed a few times a distortion when panning the bino up and down slowly. I wonder if it's the rolling ball effect or is
this actually pin cushion distortion ? I rarely pan slowly up/down so I don't care too much about this, just wondering what it is.

Panning side to side seems to be ok, but I don't do this type of panning much either. I notice with most binoculars any panning can be uncomfortable and can even make me feel slightly sick from it if prolonged.
 
Yep it’s definitely intriguing and yesterday I looked at some videos of the SFL.
I’m hoping the Audubon store gets one in so I can try it. It’s a bit more than I prefer to spend but I’m willing to see how I like it if I get the opportunity.

I’d prefer the 1k mark and I’ve been thinking of the Trinovid HD 8x32 since I’m a Leica fan. It seems a bit heavy and big though for 32mm and IPD range not so good (I have narrow IPD) as well as FOV a bit smallish. Still though it’s Leica and I may have try it to see if I like it.
Another one I’ve thought about is Razor HD 8x42 because it’s only 24 ounces and the times I’ve tried them I really liked it. But that was back when it was the Japanese made version. However I’m still more focused on a good 8x32.
I’m not in any rush and would like to see if something new may come out in 2023.
Get / try the Retro 7x35. For quite some time I was trying to find the perfect 8x32 or 8x30 and for some reason they were all not quite what I wanted (Ultravid would be my choice) but I picked up the retrovid and love it.... fits my needs just right, jim
 
Get / try the Retro 7x35. For quite some time I was trying to find the perfect 8x32 or 8x30 and for some reason they were all not quite what I wanted (Ultravid would be my choice) but I picked up the retrovid and love it.... fits my needs just right, jim
I've thought about it. Close focus is not too good though. I used to have 7x42 Ultravid HD+. I used it solely for about 4 years.
It got to be too heavy for me and I sold it. I think I'd rather stay with 8x these days. I'm used to 8x for about 3.5 yrs now and I find the little bit of extra power helpful to ID warblers and small birds. I do really like the depth of field in the 7x bins.

Leica is my fav brand and I'd love to have the Ultravid 8x32, but eye relief is too short for me (eyeglasses), unfortunately. I'd like to see Noctivid 32 in the next year. Someone on the forum mentioned Leica is working on the 32 version. It may be too expensive for me though. I should stay in the 1k price range which I can afford.
 
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I've thought about it. Close focus is not too good though. I used to have 7x42 Ultravid HD+. I used it solely for about 4 years.
It got to be too heavy for me and I sold it. I think I'd rather stay with 8x these days. I'm used to 8x for about 3.5 yrs now and I find the little bit of extra power helpful to ID warblers and small birds. I do really like the depth of field in the 7x bins.

Leica is my fav brand and I'd love to have the Ultravid 8x32, but eye relief is too short for me (eyeglasses), unfortunately. I'd like to see Noctivid 32 in the next year. Someone on the forum mentioned Leica is working on the 32 version. It may be too expensive for me though. I should stay in the 1k price range which I can afford.
Then Stick with the MHG as it is a good bin...or try a Meopta 8x32 B1.1 or B1.1 plus...you will be surprised and I feel they surpass all of the other 32x on the market..... many others can chime in on that one too.
 
Then Stick with the MHG as it is a good bin...or try a Meopta 8x32 B1.1 or B1.1 plus...you will be surprised and I feel they surpass all of the other 32x on the market..... many others can chime in on that one too.
I’m not replacing the MHG. I’m looking to buy a second binocular.

I briefly owned the Cabela’s Euro HD 8x32 (the first version). The ER was a bit short and the IPD range not too good. I had to fold the bino down close to the stop when setting the IPD. So it didn’t fit me as well as I would have liked. There were some things I really liked about it though.
 
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