Nikon SE Update (3 Viewers)

[Pepino]

Your local dealer who gets the SE´s and EII´s, does he ship in Europe?

I am not sure, but on my bill there is his IBAN/BIC bank account number which suggests that he does ship abroad. His Internet page is, however, not in English and there are no prices there. It's even not complete. So, you need to call him for models and prices. Probably, they are so low that he does not want to get problems

Anyways, he sells the EII 8x30 for 399 euro, the SE 10x42 for 599 euro and the SE 8x32 for 569 euro. For me, those are okay prices, if you consider that TAX/VAT (here: 19,5%) are included in these prices and shipping is minimal compared to importing such binos from outside Europe.

Ciao!

 

[JanPB]

NYCV is a store in the Northeast suburbs of Philadelphia - (guess they figured if you missed the turn off of I-95 you'd wind up in NY).They just sold 7 pairs of EII's after I posted them on this forum - they had been sitting on the shelf for near 5 years, and the 8x30 EII's were $270.

Perhaps it'll be a hint to them to use that new thing, whatshisname, oh yes, the INTERNET.

They have no clue where to get anymore EII's.

The frequently quoted on this forum Holger Merlitz says the EII are still listed in the newest Nikon catalogue. For some incomprehensible reason Nikon makes them very hard to get.

This is my first post to this forum BTW, I am not so much into birding (what I do frequently is cating, watching neighbourhood cats that is :cat but I love good binoculars and I found this forum to be a mine of information! It's how I found out about the magnificent EII.

--
Jan

 

[JanPB]

Hi brocknroller,

I have had another look at www.nikon.com and you can download their catalogue for 2010/2011.

Guess what?! The EII's and the SE's are included. I think that should be good enough proof that they still have them in stock. May be they have not produced them for a while, but at least they expect to have enough in stock for the coming year(s).

Ciao!

Is Nikon the only manufacturer with the silly insistence on using a different formula for calculating the apparent field of view? The standard, inexact, formula used by everyone is: true field of view X magnification (TFOV x M).

So, for example, for Nikons 8x30 EII we get: AFOV = TFOV x M = 8.8 X 8 = 70.4 degrees.

But Nikon lists the EII AFOV as 63.2 degrees in that catalogue mentioned above. That's because they use an exact formula: AFOV = arctan(M x tan(TFOV/2)) x 2. Got that? Ugh. When you plug in the 8 and the 8.8 in it, you'll get 63.23... degrees.

I believe Nikon is shooting itself in the foot with this. A field of view like 63.2 is not really eye-catching. So what if the 70.4 figure is not exact? The point is the usual (approximate) formula yields a number everyone understands. The fact that that number happens not to correspond exactly to the physical reality is entirely secondary. Someone please sack the entire Nikon binoculars marketing department for me?

--
Jan

 

[NDhunter]

Is Nikon the only manufacturer with the silly insistence on using a different formula for calculating the apparent field of view? The standard, inexact, formula used by everyone is: true field of view X magnification (TFOV x M).

So, for example, for Nikons 8x30 EII we get: AFOV = TFOV x M = 8.8 X 8 = 70.4 degrees.

But Nikon lists the EII AFOV as 63.2 degrees in that catalogue mentioned above. That's because they use an exact formula: AFOV = arctan(M x tan(TFOV/2)) x 2. Got that? Ugh. When you plug in the 8 and the 8.8 in it, you'll get 63.23... degrees.

I believe Nikon is shooting itself in the foot with this. A field of view like 63.2 is not really eye-catching. So what if the 70.4 figure is not exact? The point is the usual (approximate) formula yields a number everyone understands. The fact that that number happens not to correspond exactly to the physical reality is entirely secondary. Someone please sack the entire Nikon binoculars marketing department for me?

--
Jan

Jan:
Don't worry about trying to figure out the FOV, using a formula. The 8x30 EII, has an 8.8 deg. FOV, and that is wide for any size binocular. Just enjoy the view, as it is one of the best. I am hoping you are not out looking to purchase a binocular based on these statistics alone.
The 7x35 Nikon Action has a FOV of 9.3 deg. but as you know that really does
not offer a fair value of the useful FOV.

Jerry

 

[JanPB]

Jan:
Don't worry about trying to figure out the FOV, using a formula.

I'll drink to that! B I was only puzzled why Nikon would choose a non-standard, unnecessarily inferior-appearing statistic for their advertising. Many people do look for the field of view spec: "Oh, 62 degrees, that's less than the Zeiss Victory". Nikon's entire handling of the EII is a mystery.

Yes, I'm enjoying the view tremendously! My other binoculars are Fujinon Techno-Stabis and they are great too but after an hour of EII it's a bit of tunnel vision, heh...

 

[brocknroller]

I'll drink to that! B I was only puzzled why Nikon would choose a non-standard, unnecessarily inferior-appearing statistic for their advertising. Many people do look for the field of view spec: "Oh, 62 degrees, that's less than the Zeiss Victory". Nikon's entire handling of the EII is a mystery.

Yes, I'm enjoying the view tremendously! My other binoculars are Fujinon Techno-Stabis and they are great too but after an hour of EII it's a bit of tunnel vision, heh...

I think they said it's an ISO thing. They -- whoever they are, probably Google and Microsoft, who are planning on taking over the world -- are trying to make one standard international measurement. But right now, it appears that it's Betamax vs. VHS thang (yes, I wrote "thAng") with the arc tangent method being the Betamax equivalent.

I don't think it's going to catch on, but then again, I had a Betamax and 8-track tape player, so what the heck would I know?

Holger doesn't have an American Nikon catalog. I have the 2009 Nikon USA sports optics catalog in front of me and there is no listing for the 8x30 EII.

So if Nikon is still making EIIs, why wouldn't they sell them in the biggest market for Nikon optics in the world?
Doesn't make sense. It's one of the best birding bins ever made.

Okay, most birders have been propagandized into believing that roofs are superior, but the EII has a cult like following, I'm looking to buy a "black body" EII myself as a back up to my earlier gray body model. Enough of a cult to sustain a limited production.

The problem is, as a relatively simple design, they can't justify charging $2k like they do for the EDG, so they went where the money is.

At least that's my guess, but bucking that trend the venerable SE is still listed in the 2009 catalog. Not sure if that means they still have 8x32 505xxx serial # models (and their 10x42 and 12x50 equivalents) stacked up in their warehouse somewhere or if they plan to do a new production run after the US economy finally picks up in 2018 (I'm being optimistic).

Well, back to the election returns... and more sobbing.

Brock

 

[John Russell]

Nikon were exhibiting the 8x30 EII at Photokina in Cologne in September so it's still in production.
One dealer is advertising them for €699, presumably the RRP.
The ISO standard for AFOV is a better approximation than FOV times magnification, but nevertheless still an approximation as it doesn't take account of magnification variations across the FOV (e.g. pincussion).
See this thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=146768

John

 

[mikefreiberg]

Premier SE's

To all,

Just so everyone is aware, the Premier SE is a special order product now with all dealers. Meaning you would have to have it ordered through your dealer directly from Japan. I was not aware that there were dealers out there that still have some in stock, but once they run out they will have to special order it.

Best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon's Birding Market Specialist

 

[brocknroller]

Nikon were exhibiting the 8x30 EII at Photokina in Cologne in September so it's still in production.
One dealer is advertising them for €699, presumably the RRP.
The ISO standard for AFOV is a better approximation than FOV times magnification, but nevertheless still an approximation as it doesn't take account of magnification variations across the FOV (e.g. pincussion).
See this thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=146768

John

John,

Was the Nikon SE also at Photokina? I wonder if Nikon is dividing the world in two hemispheres, selling SE's in the West and EIIs in the East? Japan also still carries the EII.

The ISO standard for AFOV may be a better approximation than FOV times magnification, but I think boomers who have been using the old system for decades will stick with what they are familiar with (it's also easier to figure out, you don't need trigonometry).

I bet this is particularly true here in the good ole' US of A. We don't cotton to no international standards. Heck, they had to twist arms to get them to take down the Union Jack in the south a few years back and finally join the Union.

I remember when the feds tried to change us over from miles per hour to kilometers per hour, they got as far 10 miles from the NYC on Route 80 and stopped. For years there was a traffic sign stating "Speed Limit 88 Kilometers Per Hour". I don't think most people had a clue to what that was in MPH.

The reason for abandoning the changeover wasn't so much resistance (though I'm sure that eventually there would have been resistance if they had gone through with their plan), but because some bean counter in Washington, D.C. figured out how much it would cost to change every speed sign in the US, and every textbook - well, we could have sent a man to Mars for the same cost.

Then there was the "Base 10" debacle in elementary school. For two years, they had us doing math in Base 10 and other bases, only to say like Rosanna Roseannadanna, "Never mind". I'm sure our PSAT scores (preliminary college boards) would have been higher on the math side if we had not wasted two years learning a system that was not on the test.

Of course, now it's globalization that's driving international standards. For big business this makes sense. You want to be on the same page when you're dealing with foreign suppliers or buyers. But for retail stores to suddenly change their AFOV numbers and confuse customers, I think there might be a backlash.

So I think it's going to be a long transition to ISO AFOV. Don't take away my 70* AFOV 8x EII!

Brock (formerly 6'4" tall, now "only" 1.8304 meters, I feel like I'm shrinking....)

 

[David Swain]

To all,

Just so everyone is aware, the Premier SE is a special order product now with all dealers. Meaning you would have to have it ordered through your dealer directly from Japan. I was not aware that there were dealers out there that still have some in stock, but once they run out they will have to special order it.

Mike,

You could clear up a lot of confusion and speculation if you could weigh in authoritatively on the question, what is Nikon's marketing plan for the SE and EII domestically and internationally? Given continued, albeit specialized, demand for both in the US, would Nikon consider marketing them again here, or even updating them?

Thanks.

 

[John Russell]

Brock,

The SEs are still available here as they were featured in the recent "Vögel" and "Interstellarum" 10x42 tests. However, Nikon's promotion of sports optics is rather half-hearted.

AFOV was measured in these tests but there has been some discussion on a German forum about discrepancies in the results. There is a suspicion that the manufacturer, who carried out the "measurements" doctored the results to avoid a contradiction with his own specifications.

I agree that the ISO standards are for industry and not the consumer - they are not even freely available on the net.

Union Jacks in the south? I didn't think they were THAT anglophile!

John

 

[Sancho]

I remember when the feds tried to change us over from miles per hour to kilometers per hour, they got as far 10 miles from the NYC on Route 80 and stopped. For years there was a traffic sign stating "Speed Limit 88 Kilometers Per Hour". I don't think most people had a clue to what that was in MPH.

............Brock (formerly 6'4" tall, now "only" 1.8304 meters, I feel like I'm shrinking....)

Oddly, here in Ireland (not known for its flexibility), we changed overnight a few years ago from miles to kilometres, from smoking-in-public-premises to not doing so, and from Irish punts to Euros. Without a whimper. Not exactly sure about my height, though.

I recently got a pair of SE 8x32 on t´internet, from a U.S. dealer, for less than 390 euro including shipping. And I wasn´t stiffed for import duty. How much is that in dinarii? Also, they are stunning. Serial number 550xxx. Better, IMHO, than a pair I had some years ago. Or maybe I´m more easily impressed. Can´t believe that Nikon don´t produce tons of these, and market them aggressively.

 

[Pileatus]

John,

Then there was the "Base 10" debacle in elementary school. For two years, they had us doing math in Base 10 and other bases, only to say like Rosanna Roseannadanna, "Never mind". I'm sure our PSAT scores (preliminary college boards) would have been higher on the math side if we had not wasted two years learning a system that was not on the test.

That base 10 stuff is a real bummer. What a debacle!
You and the helmet binocular guy made my week.
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal

PS
This kind of nonsense is priceless.

 

[JanPB]

I think they said it's an ISO thing. They -- whoever they are, probably Google and Microsoft, who are planning on taking over the world -- are trying to make one standard international measurement.

I have nothing against ISO standards, I'm only against a whimsical change of an established metric which is easy to calculate in one's head.

But right now, it appears that it's Betamax vs. VHS thang (yes, I wrote "thAng") with the arc tangent method being the Betamax equivalent.

Haha, Betamax was actually a superior system except Sony screwed up its marketing. Long story.

 

[spyglass]

Adorama still offers all 3 SE's, with the caveat that they're on back order and will ship and charge your card when they arrive.....

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

Oddly, here in Ireland (not known for its flexibility), we changed overnight a few years ago from miles to kilometres, from smoking-in-public-premises to not doing so, and from Irish punts to Euros. Without a whimper. Not exactly sure about my height, though.

I recently got a pair of SE 8x32 on t´internet, from a U.S. dealer, for less than 390 euro including shipping. And I wasn´t stiffed for import duty. How much is that in dinarii? Also, they are stunning. Serial number 550xxx. Better, IMHO, than a pair I had some years ago. Or maybe I´m more easily impressed. Can´t believe that Nikon don´t produce tons of these, and market them aggressively.

Sancho,

According from Nikon Malaysia, SE still under production but demand for this unit is low because of the waterproof and roof style binocular is making more sales compared with SE.

Even Nikon Action EX is waterproof and has better eyecups than SE. But the funny thing is, every time customers tried my SE during exhibition and roadshow, they were stunned with the view and etc but once they know the price, they said the Monarch series is good enough for them which I agree because of the weather conditions in my place and etc

I believe, SE nowadays mostly for those who wanted to use and keep it as their precious collection. But for me, I will still use it in my birding tours until I can get my own EDG binocular which is way better than SE :king: