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NL reliability anecdotes / info: I hesitate to link this here, but I think it’s worthwhile (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pbjosh
- Start date
I agree with you. The eye cup damage is clearly chemical and not caused by dropping the binocular. If it was from an impact, it would not have the cracks and would be broken off more cleanly. The cracks indicate chemical deterioration because that is how chemicals invade the armor and dissolve it. Here is another picture from the Swarovski Binocular Users Group on Facebook, and you have almost identical cracking on the objective end of the binocular on the armor. Swarovski has admitted the armor deteriorates because of sweat primarily and that is why the eye cups have deteriorated because they are held against your eye sockets, and you can even see that the user probably used a Mosfet technique or held the binoculars against his brow because the eye cups have cracked on the top where they contact his face.
Swarovski Binoculars Users | What is the cause of this problem of my Swarovski Binocular | Facebook
What is the cause of this problem of my Swarovski Binocular? I can see it cracking.
www.facebook.com
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Isthatascratch?
Well-known member
I would still be interested in how many owners regularly clean their EL/NL binoculars with mild detergent, water and cloth or the supplied soap and brush combo. TPU should be regularly cleaned and dried.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
My neglecting to answer you earlier is one thing and your keenness to run with your assumptions is another. You are very thoroughly, however, demonstrating why I thought twice about linking this here. This binocular forum hosts a wealth of knowledgeable users and a wealth of knowledge but is also frequently just plain unpleasant to participate in.
Can you elaborate on exactly what makes it “unpleasant” for you?
He doesn't say what event caused the breakage. Did it snag on something with a large force applied?I am not trying to pour gasoline on any fire nor be provocative. There are clearly very different user groups for optics, and I and my friends tend to be in the “drag it all over the world, it better survive wrapped in a t-shirt in my backpack or bouncing on a car or boat seat every day” crowd. I do not think I abuse my gear - I actually do take efforts to protect and prolong the life of my optics and computers and phones, but I’m probably still at the high-wear end of the bell curve. I don’t have outlandish expectations of immortality for anything I own. Personally, the only binocular service issue I have had is a broken focuser on my Zeiss SF which is also my primary bin. That said, while Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, and other bins have their own service issues, I don’t think the Swaro armor issues are any secret, and it seems that the fieldpro mounts pulling out is a not so rare occurrence as I now personally know at least three people who have had this issue.
Given the amount of discussion here surrounding these issues, and for anyone who is interested in the saga of hard-living bins in the tropics, David Ascanio recently had his fieldpro mount point fall out and posted about it on FB. Of course it’s only a collection of anecdotes but nonetheless, the link for the curious:
David Ascanio
I have used Leica binoculars for 25+ years. They were reliable and strong: almost indestructible! Then, two years ago, with the valuable support of Victor Emanuel Nature Tours I was upgraded with...
Calling for reengineering while blaming "plastic" sounds very ignorant, composite plastics are highly engineered and might have been stronger than a similar metal component.
Only with a proper failure analysis under the conditions of use could one conclude what the root cause is for the failure.
Meanwhile, Swarovski is known far and wide for excellent service, so maybe just send them in for repair and move on instead of disparaging the brand unnecessarily?
Just a thought.
Yes, but metal is almost always stronger in cold temperatures. Metal becomes stronger when the temperatures drop, and plastic becomes more prone to breaking and cracking. The way the Field Pro system is engineered from plastic, it definitely looks prone to breaking. I much prefer a regular metal or plastic lug that is firmly anchored on the binocular. Who is to say your sweat is not affecting the integrity of the Field Pro system itself, causing it to weaken and break. Sweat causes plastic to dissolve and break, but not metal
"In cold temperatures, metal is generally considered stronger than plastic; while metal tends to become even stronger at low temperatures, most plastics become more brittle and weaker when exposed to cold conditions.
Explanation:
- Metal behavior:
When cooled, most metals experience an increase in tensile strength, meaning they can withstand more pulling force. However, this increased strength can sometimes come with a trade-off of decreased impact resistance, making them more prone to shattering under sudden force. - Plastic behavior:
Unlike metal, most plastics become more brittle and less resilient when exposed to cold temperatures, making them more susceptible to breaking or cracking. "
Researchers at the University of Birmingham found that because sweat contains oil, and oil has a lipophilic chemical nature that encourages the chemicals in plastic to dissolve and diffuse, the oil in your body can leach chemicals from the plastics you touch.
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Broad generalization right there. See the word "most"? Many engineered plastics and rubbers are rated to -40c for high strength.
One only has to hop into there car during a cold wintery day to discover that the plastic is not falling apart around them.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
He lives in Venezuela, it's not trivial to send them back to repair. I've lived in S America for a long time and most of my friends are latino and/or live in S America. Getting bins serviced is a non stop problem and people end up looking for someone to take their bins to the US or Europe for them, send them in for them, receive them for them, then get them to yet another person in order to take them back to them.
I really am sorry that I have posted this here, but I'm going to step out a bit and defend David. He is far from ignorant. I have no clue who you are or what your qualifications are. David is a professional ornithologist as well as the top guide in the country, and he's a hell of a birder and a hell of a person. His binoculars broke, it's really just that simple.
If you want my opinion, the NL exterior / attachment points are a pain in the ass. They result in twisted straps all the time. I've not suffered a failure but I know three people that have had the attachment point fail. I know more people who have lost objective caps than not.
What were the conditions of failure? did it just decide to pop off one day with the bins around his neck?
Just sounds like a frustrated rant from a power user.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
That's neither germaine nor helpful here. It is of course my opinion. If you don't think this thread or the bino forum is at times unpleasant, maybe you just have thicker skin
mvmenon
Member
Thanks for clearing up this issue by providing the link to the aftermarket strap attachments and confirming that my connectors are indeed different than the ones in David's pictures. I considered those before I realized that the NLs come with strap attachments already. Hope they hold up. So far, so good! Glad I didn't drop $45 on the aftermarket ones. Given current European/US relations, maybe that's why the connector failed😜
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I know what was posted in his original thread, and I know that it's not the first time it's happened to someone I know. I also know that I have the apparently outlier opinion that the strap lug shouldn't fail on a binocular.
I don't know you and just as I have commented to another person above, I have no interest in getting into a pissing match. You dismiss this issue, bully for you. Perhaps the post is of interest to others.
DMW
Well-known member
Why would you ask such a deliberately antagonistic question? You've already exposed yourself as ignorant with your "just send the binoculars off to Swarovski" comment, and now you're implying that the birder in question must have been responsible for the damage.
It's bizarre to me how toxic the binocular forum is here. It's very much out of keeping with the site in general, and sad to say it's largely US posters who are responsible.
The guy pissed on plastics and implied it was poorly engineered because it relied on a small piece of plastic. What he doesn't say was how was he using it when it broke.
Was it a design issue? Manufacturing defect? Abuse? I have no idea, but I'm also not the person promoting that it's poorly engineered and plastic is responsible his dilemma.
Lots of people like to dunk on plastics but then, many also seem to have an impression that plastics are a monolithic, "cheap/disposable" thing.
Meanwhile there are many that are highly capable and often the preferred material vs. alternatives.
Seems a bit early to say “seems” to have created another. Why not “Swarovski while providing an innovative solution intended for customers who use their binoculars in varying conditions “may have” unwittingly created a problem,”
I like “may have” rather than “seems.”
The limited facts being presented by folks with limited expertise with piling on of non related issues intended or not, once again stirs things up in the usual fashion.
The idea all opinions are welcome here gets us into another peeing contest. All opinions are not equal. They sure should not be confused with facts.
Everyone has product failure happen to them from top brands of products - that's a normal part of life. When you have a bunch of people complaining about systematic failures, then the brand probably has a design issue they'd better fix. I think that as Swaro have a large body of experience with heavy duty binoculars and supplying military equipment, and a stellar reputation for after-sales they are in a good position to solve these issues.
Yes, but the inside of a car is warm. I have had many plastic things break in cold weather from getting brittle, whereas, metal does not. If plastic is so strong, why didn't make the Eiffel Tower, Brooklyn Bridge, or the Alaskan Pipeline out of plastic? Only specialty engineered plastics can endure cold, and I doubt they use them on the Field Pro lugs of a Swarovski binocular. The trouble with plastic is sweat deteriorates it, and that is the problem with Swarovski armor.
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Sure, I've had plastics things break too. The point was that when a product is designed and engineered in such a way as to not embrittle during expected conditions of use, (or meet any other number of requirements) it can do so while including plastic components.
As for the car, well park it outside at dinner and when you come back, expect it will be cold inside. They are designed and engineered to perform well below 0.
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