OH Buzzard Central Japan (1 Viewer)

[MacNara]

Yesterday morning I woke up,went into the study next to the bedroom, pulled up the blind and looked out to see what the sky was like. There was a Goshawk, I assumed, flying lazily there, well in view - not at all common in front of my window, but common nearby.

I grabbed the camera which was nearby, and took a few shots. Then I realised that the camera settings were still from the previous evening when I'd been trying to get a Lesser Cuckoo in a wood. So, I adjusted the settings and took a few more shots in a good view. Then I noticed that the camera was telling me there was no card. So, I put the card in and by this time the bird was being harassed by a crow and was much further away. But I took a few shots and only looked at them today.

It clearly isn't a Goshawk. I think it's an Oriental Honey Buzzard (black tail end and an apparent brown ring around the throat), which would be a first for me in this area. Though we are theoretically in the summer range for this bird, we are only at 100m. I've only seen this bird on passage far from here (although it does pass over here also on migration). Or it might be a Grey-faced Buzzard to which the same applies as to how and where I've seen it.

Thanks for any help with ID. Sorry for the camera incompetence which led to the poor shots.

 

[Sangahyando]

I'm not an expert, but to me it looks more like a Grey-faced Buzzard. Also, wouldn't OHB appear larger than a raven?

 

[AlinoVegano]

It is not at all the shape of Oriental Honey Buzzard

 

[KenM]

I believe it's too small for OHB, and that perhaps Grey-faced Buzzard is a more likely call, first impressions being likened to Goshawk might be a clue, I note that in the first image there appears to be a rusty orange tint to the primaries and the trailing edge (in part) to the secondaries, which is more compatible with the latter GfB ?

Cheers

 

[xuky.summer]

Goshawk for me, head is too large for OHB, also the pattern of underwing no good for Grey-faced Buzzard and OHB

 

[lou salomon]

not familiar with grey-faced buzzard but it's not a (northern) goshawk. comparing pics, grey-faced buzzard looks to be the best bet, structure fits 100%.

 

[AlinoVegano]

not familiar with grey-faced buzzard but it's not a (northern) goshawk. comparing pics, grey-faced buzzard looks to be the best bet, structure fits 100%.

:t:



This is what I think too, it doesn´t have the shape of any Accipter I know.

 

[P.Sunesen]

:t:



This is what I think too, it doesn´t have the shape of any Accipter I know.

Right, it's a Grey-faced Buzzard.

Peter

 

[Tib78]

I see the typical goshawk shape, on both pics...and looking up for pics of GFB on the net, it does not look like a match to me.

 

[johnallcock]

Sorry, I really can't see Grey-faced Buzzard here. To me it doesn't look structurally right - I think the wings are not long enough, tail too short and the head is too broad. Also, I think it looks much too pale and uniform for a GfB - I would think it would be possible to see a darker breast and perhaps even the dark mesial. The darkest area on this bird seems to be the tail, which doesn't seem right for GfB.
Compare: http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_Image_ID=28236&Bird_ID=915&Bird_Family_ID=&Location=

I'm not really sure what else it could be. The best I can come up with is a Eurasian Sparrowhawk.

 

[P.Sunesen]

MacNara does write: "It clearly isn't a Goshawk", and may thus have some experience with that species.

What I noticed on this photo of Grey-faced Buzzard https://www.google.dk/search?q=grey...UICSgB&biw=1024&bih=672#imgrc=YWXEhMFzelofyM:

is the resemblance in flight silhouette, but I wouldn't say that I'm absolute certain here, rather that I don't see the jizz of a Northern Goshawk.

Peter

 

[AlinoVegano]

It see very similar shape than this.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x112/chiujai113/Grey-facedBuzzard_PoToi_050409_C-2.jpg

Now, the bird is moulting and this can make strange results.

 

[AlinoVegano]

MacNara does write: "It clearly isn't a Goshawk", and may thus have some experience with that species.

What I noticed on this photo of Grey-faced Buzzard https://www.google.dk/search?q=grey...UICSgB&biw=1024&bih=672#imgrc=YWXEhMFzelofyM:

is the resemblance in flight silhouette, but I wouldn't say that I'm absolute certain here, rather that I don't see the jizz of a Northern Goshawk.

Peter

Wings of OP birds look a bit broader though, I'm not sure neither... yeah, sure it is not OHB

 

[Bryon Wright]

Hi all,
GFB is a bit nebulous. It can take the off the essence of an accipiter with it's insistent wader like call or even a substantial soaring raptor like OHB. Japanese Goshawks can be very lightweight and IMO the bulging secondaries on Mac's photograph are a giveaway for male Goshawk.

 

[Tib78]

Collage 1:OP bird with a Goshawk to the right and the GFB with a broken P9 (not moulting) linked to above.

Collage 2: OP bird (top image) with a goshawk in the same position; just the tail is slightly fanned.

Sorry but...the OP is most definitely not a Grey-faced buzzard.

 

[MacNara]

Thank you all for taking so much trouble with your replies.

If I had been awake when I first saw it, I could have got proper pictures.

If all you knowledgeable people can't agree, then I'll just have to leave it with no ID. No problem.

One thing that struck me from the photos is that the tail seems not to be banded, but to have a long black tip. Also, I would expect adult Goshawks (fairly common here) to be pale below (the barring wouldn't be visible at this distance) and not show any other colouration, while juvenile would be much more heavily marked than this bird seems to be. Indeed, the wing pattern in the photos made me think Eastern Buzzard, but the tail (if true in the photos) seems to rule it out

These photos are taken in the air (i.e. not through a window) and with a good camera and lens, but that doesn't mean there can't still be artefacts.

(One more photo attached.)

(The black bird is a Large-billed Crow, not a Raven which we don't have here.)

We do see a lot of Goshawks here and at first I thought (assumed) it was, but I was barely awake, and then the photos seemed to show this different colouration. It probably is a Goshawk with photo artefacts - we do get Sparrowhawk, less commonly than Goshawk, but not usually in the summer.

My location, Nara, is in the summer range of OHB and GFB in Brazil's Birds of East Asia, and we do get medium-rare things sometimes. For example Blue Rock Thrush seem to be breeding on buildings around here (I took a photo of a beautiful male yesterday from the same window) although we'e about as far from the sea as you can get in Japan, and we're a small city with the buildings only four or five storeys high). And we're only 100m above sea level in the city, and even the surrounding hills are only a few hundred metres high. A lot of summer birds are in the hills, and even more in higher hills and low mountains twenty or so kilometres away. And many more in the real mountains six or seven hours' drive away.

I'm often impressed by the kindness of people on Bird Forum; it always makes me feel more optimistic about the future of our planet. I'm very grateful that so many of you took the trouble to try to identify the bird in these poor photos. Thank you all very much.

Off-topic note to Tib:

Même plus rare ici que OHB, il y a un mois j'ai rencontré pour la première fois une française qui habite la même ville (population 400,000) que moi, depuis vingt ans comme moi (à deux kilometres de chez moi), mariée avec un Japonais comme moi (je suis homme marié avec une Japonaise, il faut préciser), et qui utilise le même (petit) super-marché que moi.

On est peut-être 20 étrangers non-asiatiques dans cette ville (des milliers de touristes visitent quand même; site Unesco du premier rang). C'est vraiment tout-à-fait bizarre qu'on ne se soit pas croisé.

Justement, elle a récemment commencer à observer des oiseaux avec une amie japonaise, une femme que j'avais rencontré deux ou trois fois auparavent, et c'est avec cette femme japonaise que je l'ai rencontré, en regardent un Gobemouche narcisse.

 

[Tib78]

Off-topic note to Tib:

Même plus rare ici que OHB, il y a un mois j'ai rencontré pour la première fois une française qui habite la même ville (population 400,000) que moi, depuis vingt ans comme moi (à deux kilometres de chez moi), mariée avec un Japonais comme moi (je suis homme marié avec une Japonaise, il faut préciser), et qui utilise le même (petit) super-marché que moi.

On est peut-être 20 étrangers non-asiatiques dans cette ville (des milliers de touristes visitent quand même; site Unesco du premier rang). C'est vraiment tout-à-fait bizarre qu'on ne se soit pas croisé.

Justement, elle a récemment commencer à observer des oiseaux avec une amie japonaise, une femme que j'avais rencontré deux ou trois fois auparavent, et c'est avec cette femme japonaise que je l'ai rencontré, en regardent un Gobemouche narcisse.

Life is full of surprises my friend . And we all have to make the best of it. And congrats on your French by the way!

Just getting back to the ID issue for a second: I'd like to hear back from some of the posters above, several of them I hold in high regard when it comes to ID skills. Did any of you change your mind by any chance?
I am asking because I am totally seeing a Goshawk here. On each and every pictures Mac posted (and I somehow doubt that anyone thinks it is likely to be a Grey-faced buzzard any more, especially after that last picture was posted, but maybe I am wrong).
In fact, I shamefully admit that I typed post #9 without reading Mac's account of the sighting and also managed to skip KenM's comment in the process. Thus I thought goshawk had not been mentionned before Xuky's post #5 and was surprised to see he was a bit on his own for that matter. Since then, and after I finally read the initial post, I have come to realize that Goshawk was Mac's first impression...and well, I am convinced his first impression was the right one.
Now I won't insist any more after that post and Mac, if you still feel your bird is better left unidentified I am totally ok with that.

 

[KenM]

Life is full of surprises my friend . And we all have to make the best of it. And congrats on your French by the way!

Just getting back to the ID issue for a second: I'd like to hear back from some of the posters above, several of them I hold in high regard when it comes to ID skills. Did any of you change your mind by any chance?
I am asking because I am totally seeing a Goshawk here. On each and every pictures Mac posted (and I somehow doubt that anyone thinks it is likely to be a Grey-faced buzzard any more, especially after that last picture was posted, but maybe I am wrong).
In fact, I shamefully admit that I typed post #9 without reading Mac's account of the sighting and also managed to skip KenM's comment in the process. Thus I thought goshawk had not been mentionned before Xuky's post #5 and was surprised to see he was a bit on his own for that matter. Since then, and after I finally read the initial post, I have come to realize that Goshawk was Mac's first impression...and well, I am convinced his first impression was the right one.
Now I won't insist any more after that post and Mac, if you still feel your bird is better left unidentified I am totally ok with that.

With less than perfect images (something I'm not unfamiliar with), one has to take into account the OP's visual description and that was to include "not Goshawk" and with an apparant "ring" around the throat. Also....even allowing for photo artefact, to my eye there appears to be too much rufous in the prims. and secondaries. As we know BOPs probably are the greatest "geometry contortionists" in the air, and as such are extremely challenging especially at distance. I can see the shape comparing to Goshawk, but am having difficulty reconciling to that species. As was stated previously, Far-Eastern Gos are relatively lightweight compared to European, and as I've no experience of the former. All I can say is that it doesn't quite tick the European Gos box for me.

Cheers

 

[Bryon Wright]

Hi all,
the Japanese printmakers were obsessed with their pale goshawks! This print from about 1891 is a caricature but a well observed one and from life.

 

[AlinoVegano]

With less than perfect images (something I'm not unfamiliar with), one has to take into account the OP's visual description and that was to include "not Goshawk" and with an apparant "ring" around the throat. Also....even allowing for photo artefact, to my eye there appears to be too much rufous in the prims. and secondaries. As we know BOPs probably are the greatest "geometry contortionists" in the air, and as such are extremely challenging especially at distance. I can see the shape comparing to Goshawk, but am having difficulty reconciling to that species. As was stated previously, Far-Eastern Gos are relatively lightweight compared to European, and as I've no experience of the former. All I can say is that it doesn't quite tick the European Gos box for me.

Cheers

Ken, when other observers give excellent argumentation for a solution that is not yours, why not accepting and learn from it instead of insisting in the wrong way?

I thought it was not a Goshawk, but reading other's arguments and Tib's collage, I just have to admit I was wrong. Not that tough...