-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Oriental Skylark or…? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Muratfaik
- Start date
Grahame Walbridge
Well-known member
Its a Eurasian Skylark Murat. The pp is too long; 3 tips visible beyond tertials, 2 of which widely spaced. Biil is too small, Oriental typically shows a longer, more pointed bill. Plumage-wise, outer tail feather (TF6) shows pure white vs buff in Oriental, ear coverts are streaked (open-faced) vs more solidly warmer brown in Oriental.
Grahame
Last edited:
Thank you very much for your valuable comments Graham,
I think the pp is too short for a typical eurasian skylark. As far as I know, the length of pp beyond tertials is an ID criteria instead of number of exposing tips of primaries (?) Agree, bill is too short for oriental skylark. When we look at the overall colouration, I see the outermost tail feathers are buff, instead of white. It seems white but I think it is caused by highlight blowing (wrong exposure). I see “L” shape on the face of the bird, which is not typical for eurasian skylark.
I took many pictures at same location, on same day and only this bird was different as in structure and plumage. I share some more pictures (Not sure same bird, but almost same time), the stance of the bird is too upright for an euraisian skylark (?) and a trio of skylarks which shows coloration differences (May be age related?)
On the other hand, I looked at the subspecies of the skylark, which were previously recorded in Turkey: all breeding bird in southeast belongs to A. a. armenica. But the northeast birds belong to A. a. canterella (although wing length some what longer). But in winter nominate ssp and A. a. dulcivox was also recored within the region.
In adition to that; oriental skylark’s “inconspicua” subspecies found in eastern parts of Iran etc. This ssp is lighter in plumage colouration and is the most probable ssp in winter in Turkey. I understand it is almost impossible to tell the ssp from some photos, but discussing and sharing the findings may be hepful for future records.
I think the pp is too short for a typical eurasian skylark. As far as I know, the length of pp beyond tertials is an ID criteria instead of number of exposing tips of primaries (?) Agree, bill is too short for oriental skylark. When we look at the overall colouration, I see the outermost tail feathers are buff, instead of white. It seems white but I think it is caused by highlight blowing (wrong exposure). I see “L” shape on the face of the bird, which is not typical for eurasian skylark.
I took many pictures at same location, on same day and only this bird was different as in structure and plumage. I share some more pictures (Not sure same bird, but almost same time), the stance of the bird is too upright for an euraisian skylark (?) and a trio of skylarks which shows coloration differences (May be age related?)
On the other hand, I looked at the subspecies of the skylark, which were previously recorded in Turkey: all breeding bird in southeast belongs to A. a. armenica. But the northeast birds belong to A. a. canterella (although wing length some what longer). But in winter nominate ssp and A. a. dulcivox was also recored within the region.
In adition to that; oriental skylark’s “inconspicua” subspecies found in eastern parts of Iran etc. This ssp is lighter in plumage colouration and is the most probable ssp in winter in Turkey. I understand it is almost impossible to tell the ssp from some photos, but discussing and sharing the findings may be hepful for future records.
Grahame Walbridge
Well-known member
All the new images are Eurasian, bill and wing structure clearly visible as is the tail length which is too long for Oriental. Note pure white in outer tail (TF6) again visible in lower image. A further feature concerns the breast streaking which is messier and heavier in Eurasian, streaking typically finer, sparser the lower border less well-defined in Oriental. Also, all show fine streaks to throat vs unstreaked in Oriental.
I feel I need to repeat the pp is too long for Oriental which, at best, displays 2 tips beyond tertials but only 1 showing any degree of spacing.
Re age, birds cannot be aged after completion of post-juvenile moult which is completed in early summer.
Your images aptly illustrate the considerable variation in plumage shown by Eurasian Skylark.
Grahame
I feel I need to repeat the pp is too long for Oriental which, at best, displays 2 tips beyond tertials but only 1 showing any degree of spacing.
Re age, birds cannot be aged after completion of post-juvenile moult which is completed in early summer.
Your images aptly illustrate the considerable variation in plumage shown by Eurasian Skylark.
Grahame
Last edited:
The wing of a male oriental lark-A. gulgula measured 98.5 mm in Kazakhistan (A. g. incospicua?):
Oriental Lark (Alauda gulgula). Birds of Kazakhstan.
and the wing lenght of a female eurasian skylark (A. a. armenicus) is 110.1mm (108-112mm n=6) (Birds of Western Palearctic),
also Two female A. a. cantarella measured 102mm and 105mm (n=2) in Erzurum and İspir (Turkey).
Same two birds (A. a. cantarella) of from Erzurum-İspir, measured bill lengths are, 13mm and 15.4mm (n=2), comparing 9.1-13.8mm in A. gulgula (from Kazakhistan, males).
I think, we should compare near-east ssp of these two species, instead of one Tibetan ssp of A. gulgula vs west european ssp of the A. arvensis, including plumage details.
Oriental Lark (Alauda gulgula). Birds of Kazakhstan.
and the wing lenght of a female eurasian skylark (A. a. armenicus) is 110.1mm (108-112mm n=6) (Birds of Western Palearctic),
also Two female A. a. cantarella measured 102mm and 105mm (n=2) in Erzurum and İspir (Turkey).
Same two birds (A. a. cantarella) of from Erzurum-İspir, measured bill lengths are, 13mm and 15.4mm (n=2), comparing 9.1-13.8mm in A. gulgula (from Kazakhistan, males).
I think, we should compare near-east ssp of these two species, instead of one Tibetan ssp of A. gulgula vs west european ssp of the A. arvensis, including plumage details.