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Spotted or Common Sandpiper? (2 Viewers)

The problem is; there are different illustrations and details for the american vagrant Such that according to owned guidebook anyone can judge this species differently. I can see two toned bill, slightly longer tail (tail projection), drab orange legs and especially bolder rear supercilium (a feature that said for spotted sp) on my pictures. That is why I guess instead of judging from book or internet, an observer who saw two species on the field is needed.
The bill on your bird isn’t two toned, that’s exactly what I mentioned in the beginning. You cannot see a longer tail projection. The legs are green not drab orange. Seems you are seeing what you want too, I’m confident that this is a common sandpiper, seems like others are as well.
 
The bill on your bird isn’t two toned, that’s exactly what I mentioned in the beginning. You cannot see a longer tail projection. The legs are green not drab orange. Seems you are seeing what you want too, I’m confident that this is a common sandpiper, seems like others are as well.
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I don’t know on which device are you lookin on my pictures, but I see two toned bill on my 12.9 inch Ipad..,I can see (slightly) longer projection since I have circa 20 minutes video of this bird. On some scenes tail projection visible. I took these pictures with my nikon z9+nikon z600mm f4 lens and the colors and contrast are totally different from my Canon R3+canon800mm f11 lens. Of course this bird can be a common sandpiper but judging color without color and lighting information can be misleading. That is why I am asking for a field observer’s view who has field experience for both species.
 
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I don’t know on which device are you lookin on my pictures, but I see two toned bill on my 12.9 inch Ipad..,I can see (slightly) longer projection since I have circa 20 minutes video of this bird. On some scenes tail projection visible. I took these pictures with my nikon z9+nikon z600mm f4 lens and the colors and contrast are totally different from my Canon R3+canon800mm f11 lens. Of course this bird can be a common sandpiper but judging color without color and lighting information can be misleading. That is why I am asking for a field observer’s view who has field experience for both species.
Common sandpiper also has a lighter lower mandible- the spotted is more noticeable- yours is barely noticeable. You seem to be looking at the areas of identification of the spotted but not the common.

Apologies- had an image up but not sure you can do that on this forum. I can link it though.
 
I can see . . . slightly longer tail (tail projection)
I can see (slightly) longer projection since I have circa 20 minutes video of this bird
I'm not sure what's happening here. You seem to be ignoring information - in the literature, in published photos, comments given here, and the appearance of your bird in your own photos and video. Please read my post #12 again:
From the video, there's certainly something odd/missing about the tail (tail missing, tail-coverts present??) - because this bird's 'tail' isn't normal for either spotted sandpiper or common sandpiper - and thus, tail-wise, it's no more likely to be spotted sandpiper than it is to be common sandpiper. As a juvenile, it won't (I guess) be moulting its tail.
If you disagree with any of that it would be helpful if you said exactly what - and why - because my contention is that you cannot use anything about tail-length to help identify your bird.
As Bewick and Fern have described in some detail, there is nothing about your bird that gives any particular suspicion that this is a spotted sandpiper - and thus no reason to think that it is anything other than a common sandpiper.
Note particularly that on your bird:
  • The tertials have transverse dark marks, which common sandpiper does and apparently spotted sandpiper does not.
  • The upperparts (notably scapulars) are extensively and strongly marked with pale/dark scalloping which fits juvenile common sandpiper and is much less apparent in juvenile spotted sandpiper (see, e.g., Svensson guide).
 
Unequivocally Common. The bill is totally wrong for Spotted and even with a shortened tail, it doesn't have the more robust, 'blobby' overall jizz of Spotted compared with Common.

RB
 
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I don’t know on which device are you lookin on my pictures, but I see two toned bill
Yes I agree there's a lighter patch here. However, it's barely noticeable (even taking lighting / photo effects into account). On spotted this is usually much clearer than this: like many others I've experience of both species. I don't think this gives you support for spotted.
 
Yes I agree there's a lighter patch here. However, it's barely noticeable (even taking lighting / photo effects into account). On spotted this is usually much clearer than this: like many others I've experience of both species. I don't think this gives you support for spotted.
Agree; Spotted usually has a more obviously bi-coloured bill, the base of both mandibles contrasting more sharply with the dark tip. The bill is also slightly deeper based and finer tipped with an ever so slight down-curve compared with Common.

RB
 
Perhaps this article is helpful; for the reasons already given (tertails, facial pattern, bare parts (legs) colouration, bill shape and colouration, structure, contrasting (rather than diffuse) breast markings, etc I agree that this is a Common Sandpiper.
 
Thank you very much for your valuable comments friends. Today I went to same area and found same bird. I took some upper and underwing photos With my canon R3+800mmf11.


78510BDB-EEC1-4F40-9D41-68FD4960D262.jpegD7AC942F-A5D4-476E-B15E-1B99124B282E.jpeg
 
Does look like the same bird (a few feather details + the weirdly short tail). Has outer primaries old and rest of flight-feathers fresh - so must be an adult with fresh fringey upperpart feathering. Still can't figure out the short tail.
 
Does look like the same bird (a few feather details + the weirdly short tail). Has outer primaries old and rest of flight-feathers fresh - so must be an adult with fresh fringey upperpart feathering. Still can't figure out the short tail.

A hybrid? A few years ago there was a lesser flamingo in Turkey. Her juvenile was showing both P. ruber & P minor. If we didn’t see the P. minor, the young bird would stay as a suspicious bird. Here is a footage of them on my instagram account:


 
There's no reason whatsoever to suspect that.
Have you considered A. macularia rava? Formerly common and spotted sandpipers were conspesific. Then divided to two species. After that some autors divide A. macularia as nominate and A. m. rava. But said that differences are minimal, for that reason it is monotipic.. but some autors still believe that there are two subspecies in spotted sanpiper. Western European records seems to comes from East Part of America. But Turkish records questionable. May be from western America through Asia? Just thinking. There is no picture or illustrations about rava subspecies. Only articles which is not a usual way to identifiy a bird..F2BB8F38-0340-41A0-A67D-F425CE3CE1E4.jpeg
 
Hi Murat, if the subspecies isn't illustrated or described in detail, how can it be considered? Photos of macularius from e.g. western Canada presumably relate to rava (if it is a valid taxon - doesn't appear to be) but look indistinguishable from nominate.
I'd suggest that as there are no features for Spotted Sandpiper (except the odd tail, which could be explained via retarded moult or regrowth following loss) and multiple contributors have given sound explanation on why it isn't a Spotted Sandpiper... it isn't a Spotted Sandpiper!
Of course, if you disagree, you can submit to your regional or national committee, though I'd be surprised if the outcome was any different.
Hope this helps put your mind at ease.
 
Hi Murat, if the subspecies isn't illustrated or described in detail, how can it be considered? Photos of macularius from e.g. western Canada presumably relate to rava (if it is a valid taxon - doesn't appear to be) but look indistinguishable from nominate.
I'd suggest that as there are no features for Spotted Sandpiper (except the odd tail, which could be explained via retarded moult or regrowth following loss) and multiple contributors have given sound explanation on why it isn't a Spotted Sandpiper... it isn't a Spotted Sandpiper!
Of course, if you disagree, you can submit to your regional or national committee, though I'd be surprised if the outcome was any different.
Hope this helps put your mind at ease.

Thanks Daniel,

I do not try the bird to recognize as spotted or not. But I catch a good example to discuss a well known species. That is why I am sharing details that may be helpful to detailed view including me. Actually there are enough information about generally unrecognized subspecies except popular birding sites. Here is some info about rava subspecies:



Please note that winter adults and youngs part.

Interestingly I found another article that says younger birds (Juveniles etc.) have longer bill and tarsus length!… it explains why this is happening:



Butty mentioned that the bird should be an adult due to plumage freshness. An adult A. m. rava has indistinct spotting even in breeding plumage (according to 1st article), so autumn-winter plumage can be expected more indistinct than a nominate A. macularia? Article also mentiones breeding-nonbreeding plumage upperparts color difference which fits the short tailed bird. As I said, for me it is not important what the bird is. But reading details that I care. And this platform is one of the correct place which has full of experienced birders who are capable to do this.
 
Butty mentioned that the bird should be an adult due to plumage freshness.
No, that's not what I said. It's adult because it's moulting its flight feathers in autumn; juveniles don't do this (unless common sandpiper has an unusual moult strategy).
 
No, that's not what I said. It's adult because it's moulting its flight feathers in autumn; juveniles don't do this (unless common sandpiper has an unusual moult strategy).
But the end result is the same. It is agreeable that the bird is an adult but not a juvenile. The moulting of the feathers in autumn results in freshness of the plumage😀
 
No, that's not what I said. It's adult because it's moulting its flight feathers in autumn; juveniles don't do this (unless common sandpiper has an unusual moult strategy).
Both adults and juveniles have a complete, or mostly complete, post-breeding/post-juvenile moult, respectively, though typically this occurs from October, on the wintering grounds. Adults can, however, sometimes begin this moult, including the tail and tertials and, occasionally, up to six inner primaries, before migrating, which is presumably what is going on here.
 

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