opticsfreak
Member
Hi! Has sombody tried these two side by side? Is there any differnence in the detail seen with either, or not that much? What are the advantages of each one? Thanks! I'm forward to buying one B 
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Pentax 6.5x21 and 8.5x21 differences (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter opticsfreak
- Start date
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I have both.
The 6.5x with a wider 7.5 degree FOV is perhaps better for butterfly and other close-in fast moving insect hunting. The 8.5x with 6 degree is better perhaps with slower and smaller insects.
I think I prefer the 6.5x on balance but I could see were the 8.5x would be more use. Larger exit pupil too. I agree with others that the 8.5x is softer at long distance.
They are good "naturalist" glasses and work against a wider range of targets than most bins but they are not the best birding bins but useful in a pinch.
Search the forum too (for all the varients of the spelling of Papillo, Papilo, etc) ... there have been commonts on these bins in the past. This is a pretty good overview.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=82434
BTW, cameralandny.com is selling the 6.5x21 for $70 + shipping.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3107656
The 6.5x with a wider 7.5 degree FOV is perhaps better for butterfly and other close-in fast moving insect hunting. The 8.5x with 6 degree is better perhaps with slower and smaller insects.
I think I prefer the 6.5x on balance but I could see were the 8.5x would be more use. Larger exit pupil too. I agree with others that the 8.5x is softer at long distance.
They are good "naturalist" glasses and work against a wider range of targets than most bins but they are not the best birding bins but useful in a pinch.
Search the forum too (for all the varients of the spelling of Papillo, Papilo, etc) ... there have been commonts on these bins in the past. This is a pretty good overview.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=82434
BTW, cameralandny.com is selling the 6.5x21 for $70 + shipping.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3107656
opticsfreak
Member
Which one lets you see more detail,say, in a caterpillar's body at closest focus, the 6 or the 8's? Thanks.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The 8x of course but caterpillars don't move to quick
For things in flight I prefer the 6x even then a close bumblebee at x6.5 is really very big (half a field!).
For things in flight I prefer the 6x even then a close bumblebee at x6.5 is really very big (half a field!).
henry link
Well-known member
One thing to consider is that the magnification of these binoculars substantially increases at the very close focus. As I recall Ed Zarenski at Cloudy Nights measured the magnification of the 6.5X as about 8x at the closest focus. The 8x should show the same percentage increase.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I'd never noticed that (my expectations for apparent bumblebee size at 3 feet range are not clear) but it makes sense.
Hi! Has sombody tried these two side by side? Is there any differnence in the detail seen with either, or not that much? What are the advantages of each one? Thanks! I'm forward to buying one B
Hello,
I too have both the 6.5 and 8.5. I'm highly delighted
with both. But for NO REASON what so ever, I find that
I nearly always take the 6.5 with me. On thinking about it
now. I suppose it's because I use them to observe insects
that are only feet and inches away from me. But, whatever,
you will just love them!
Most kindest regards,
young Ian.
opticsfreak
Member
Thanks. Does the 8.5x have considerable more hand-shake than the 6.5x? Is that why the 6.5 is generally preferred?
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I think wider FOV goes for the 6.5x (which I prefer too).
Bigger exit pupil too (so easier alignment of the eye).
And that magnification goes up as you focus more closely so I find the 6.5x has plenty of magnification for insects and the like.
At 18" its amazing. I find myself capturing things on piece of stiff card (bookmarks are good), holding them at arm's length and using the Papillo one handed to view them. Turns minibeasts into quite big beasts.
And there's less shake too.
Bigger exit pupil too (so easier alignment of the eye).
And that magnification goes up as you focus more closely so I find the 6.5x has plenty of magnification for insects and the like.
At 18" its amazing. I find myself capturing things on piece of stiff card (bookmarks are good), holding them at arm's length and using the Papillo one handed to view them. Turns minibeasts into quite big beasts.
And there's less shake too.
opticsfreak
Member
OK... Well I guess the best option is the 6.5. I think I'm buying it, reading all the reviews and all the advice you all gave to me. Besides, the higher power model, as I understand, requires a mount for a steadier image, and I don't wanna carry a tripod. AND the image is brighter in the 6.5x. So, thanks.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I have no problem holiding the 8.5x steady (though its a bit less steady than the 6.5x).
Both have tripod mounts which are a great feature if you are observing a fixed site (a particular flower or a insect nest) though not quite though out given the porro 2 design with "downward" bending eyepieces (unlike the upward bending EPs on Canon IS bins). That makes them easier to point but means a lot of tripod mounts are too big for the space they allow.
And you only need a tiny tripod if you are observing things on the ground. I have an 18 inch Slik that works great with these but would be useless with all my other optics. And it does make for a fixed image and frees up your hands to make notes.
opticsfreak
Member
Hmmm... my main concerns are stability and image brightness. At 11 oz. I think I won't have such a steady image. I mean, the exit pupil in the 8.5x at closest focus is 2.1 mm and in the 6.5X, 2.6. I want that purchase to be the most possibly versatile. Yes, the tripod is a good idea, but, as I said, I don't want to carry one. Maybe a table-top, but I don't see in it any practical use (I plan to use the binoc in the field).
Now a question, which image at closest focus do you personally prefer, the one of the 6's or the 8's? Which one is better for you as a Papilio user? :?
Now a question, which image at closest focus do you personally prefer, the one of the 6's or the 8's? Which one is better for you as a Papilio user? :?
opticsfreak
Member
Or, better said: For what exactly do you use them, and, for that application, which image do you prefer?
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Most versatile is the 6.5x: wider FOV; bigger DOF.
The difference in magnification doesn't make that big a difference unless you really are looking at small/distant stuff.
And though a lot of people say "the heavier bin is steadier" there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence for that statement (measurements show the shake is about the same regardless of weight). The arm/bin system is active system not a spring and a weight. See Vukobratovich's review paper (elsewhere on this site).
Lack of shake has more to do with a good grip. Prop the bins with your palm rather than holding them with your fingertips. Wrap your hands around the bin.
The difference in magnification doesn't make that big a difference unless you really are looking at small/distant stuff.
And though a lot of people say "the heavier bin is steadier" there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence for that statement (measurements show the shake is about the same regardless of weight). The arm/bin system is active system not a spring and a weight. See Vukobratovich's review paper (elsewhere on this site).
Lack of shake has more to do with a good grip. Prop the bins with your palm rather than holding them with your fingertips. Wrap your hands around the bin.
I sometimes use my 6.5's on a lightweight Cullmann 2902 tripod with ball head when viewing at 18".
http://www.cloudynights.com/photopost/data/500/1717IMGP0196_450X600.jpg
http://www.cloudynights.com/photopost/data/500/1717IMGP0196_450X600.jpg
opticsfreak
Member
Well, thank you all for the advice! I'm going for the 6.5x's. Thanks again.
I own a 6.5x model, having bought it on the premises that it provides a brighter picture. However, I have now bought a 8.5x for my son. This has provided the opportunity for some direct comparisons. Over all, I think the 6.5x is more suitable if one uses it often for very close objects. Shake and loss of light as well as depth of field make the smaller magnification more attractive to me for that purpose. However, I had a real WOW experience with the larger mag for more distant (classical binoculars use) objects. What a fine and contrasty view! I think, anyone who is planning on using the Papilio mainly for distant objects should opt for the 8.5x model. Even under less than optimal light conditions, one still gets a very decent picture.
I compared these two last weekend, having them both in newer II versions. Optical quality is the same. Field of view is more noticeably different than magnification is. The most noticeable difference is eye placement; on the 8.5 eye relief is too little to prevent kidney beaning. I could only get a good comfortable full view by holding them a bit from my face of lightly touching my eyebrows. They should've increased the eye relief on the 8.5, now it's way more uncomfortable than the 6.5 which its magnification is sufficient (esp for viewing mosses and insects up close, what you'd mainly use this for) and field of view clearly bigger.
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
You seem to have the same experiences I had 10 years ago when comparing the 2. I thought the 8.5's were a no go due to ER and the smaller exit pupil. I have the same black out/kidney beaning issues with most small 8x20 roofs as well, preferring 8x25's.
The question going thru my mind the last couple of days is I wonder if anyone knows whether the coatings have been upgraded on the Papilios since 2016 ??
Although I have 2 pairs of 6.5's, with one in unopened box, this blue model has attracted my attention (blue being my favorite color). Only info I could find was that WWF wildlife federation in India teamed up with Pentax in 2016 to produce the blue 6.5 and a green 8.5.
If the coatings are the same as current models, I would gladly pay the extra $25 to own this blue wonder.
The question going thru my mind the last couple of days is I wonder if anyone knows whether the coatings have been upgraded on the Papilios since 2016 ??
Although I have 2 pairs of 6.5's, with one in unopened box, this blue model has attracted my attention (blue being my favorite color). Only info I could find was that WWF wildlife federation in India teamed up with Pentax in 2016 to produce the blue 6.5 and a green 8.5.
If the coatings are the same as current models, I would gladly pay the extra $25 to own this blue wonder.
