Peregrines called "hawks" in a book (4 Viewers)

[senior]

I am translating the book by J. A. Baker called Peregrine. It is a somewhat fictionalized but still documentary record of observations of peregrine falcon. The place is the coastal part of Essex, England, the time around the 1960s.

For some reason the author often calls the bird a "hawk", although falcons and hawks belong to different taxonomic orders. Why could he be doing that? I would appreciate help with this issue.

Below are two sample paragraphs where the author interchangeably writes "peregrine" and "hawk":

"To be recognised and accepted by a peregrine you must wear the same clothes, travel by the same way, perform actions in the same order. Like all birds, it fears the unpredictable. Enter and leave the same fields at the same time each day, soothe the hawk from its wildness by a ritual of behaviour as invariable as its own. Hood the glare of the eyes, hide the white tremor of the hands, shade the stark reflecting face, assume the stillness of a tree. A peregrine fears nothing he can see clearly and far off..."

"The hardest thing of all to see is what is really there. Books about birds show pictures of the peregrine, and the text is full of information. Large and isolated in the gleaming whiteness of the page, the hawk stares back at you, bold, statuesque, brightly coloured. But when you have shut the book, you will never see that bird again..."

 

[Frank van Drogen]

I'd think the same reason why people often talk about eagles when seeing any raptor... lack of detailed knowledge.

 

[Richard Prior]

Every time he uses the word hawk in your quoted texts you should translate into falcon in the language to which you’re translating the book.

 

[Strontium Dog]

It's just colloquial English, a "hawk" could refer to any similar bird of prey.

 

[Jim M.]

In British English "hawk" used to be a perfectly acceptable generic term for diurnal raptors. The first definition of "hawk" from my compact edition of the Oxford English dictionary (copyright 1971): "Any diurnal bird of prey used in falconry; any bird in the family Falconidae [not sure what this family included at the time that was written--but it at least included falcons]." (It then goes on to give the narrower current use in the UK (which I believe is limited to accipters) for natural history contexts).

In American English "hawk" is arguably still used more broadly. A famous book on identification of North American raptors is titled "Hawks in Flight." Also,"Duck Hawk" was a common name used by birders in the U.S. for Peregrine Falcon up until the 1960s (in England it was a common name for marsh harrier according to the OED).

 

[Jim M.]

For some reason the author often calls the bird a "hawk", although falcons and hawks belong to different taxonomic orders. Why could he be doing that? I would appreciate help with this issue.

Also, to emphasize, hawks (accipiters) and falcons didn't belong to different taxonomic orders in the 1960s. All diurnal birds of prey were in the order Falconiformes.

 

[senior]

Thank you, everybody, for the answers. I will write something generic like "predator" or "bird of prey" or "bird" wherever there's "hawk" in the original. In the end, it must be a combination of old vernacular naming and outdated taxonomy, where hawks and falcons weren't even in different orders, as Jim mentioned.

 

[dantheman]

Thank you, everybody, for the answers. I will write something generic like "predator" or "bird of prey" or "bird" wherever there's "hawk" in the original. In the end, it must be a combination of old vernacular naming and outdated taxonomy, where hawks and falcons weren't even in different orders, as Jim mentioned.

Or you could write 'peregrine' sometimes, as that is what it is referring to? Pretty sure it could flow better than something too generic (although bird works too), but then again, you know the language you're translating into ... ;-)

 

[senior]

Or you could write 'peregrine' sometimes, as that is what it is referring to?

Yes, of course, "peregrine" too

 

[Trinovid]

Thank you, everybody, for the answers. I will write something generic like "predator" or "bird of prey" or "bird" wherever there's "hawk" in the original. In the end, it must be a combination of old vernacular naming and outdated taxonomy, where hawks and falcons weren't even in different orders, as Jim mentioned.

Doing translations is a very taxing endeavor in the first place, and now you've got science to make it even more complex. Good luck with the work.

 

[senior]

Doing translations is a very taxing endeavor in the first place, and now you've got science to make it even more complex. Good luck with the work.

Yes, in this book it's part poetics, part science that need to be translated. Thank you for the support.

 

[Trinovid]

Yes, in this book it's part poetics, part science that need to be translated. Thank you for the support.

I only opened the thread out of curiosity but when I read your posts and some of the responses it was immediately apparent that it was not going to be an easy job and that you’re probably going to benefit greatly from the input of others, and from your own patience as well.

I’ve done only a handful of translations from Japanese and likewise benefited from the help of friends by writing what I wanted to, letting them read it, arguing through points of accuracy, but then also the poetic aspects, which can bring life to an otherwise dry, and hard to absorb translation.

A couple of mine were particularly challenging because they were instructionals of my own that I preferred to read as though they’d been written by a native speaker, both for ease of the reader, not to mention how frustrating poorly done materials are to decipher.

Looking forward to reading this thread more and watching as you make progress, and your approach seems sure to bring satisfactory results in the end.

 

[senior]

Looking forward to reading this thread more and watching as you make progress, and your approach seems sure to bring satisfactory results in the end.

Many thanks for the comments. Yes, I am accumulating more questions about birds, specifically peregrine habits, and I think I will be asking them on this forum. Good luck with your works too.

 

[opisska]

What language do you translate it to and how do you even translate "hawk" in the first place?

In Czech for example, the obvious translation for "hawk" is "jestřáb" - that's how one would use this even in figurative sense - like saying a a guy is a war hawk would translate like that. But "jestřáb", when you look at real bird taxonomy, is really just Northern Goshawk and nothing else - it very much is not a general word for a bird of prey in Czech. Unlike English, which at least has derivative names like "sparrowhawk" and such, we call sparrohawk "krahujec", zero reference to the word "jestřáb".

The moral here is that between English and other languages, there are big differences in the scope of words. If I were translating the text to Czech, I would simply translate "hawk" as "dravec", meaning literally "bird of prey", without really any hesitation.

 

[SlowLowFlyingTurkey]

In the book, if I'm remembering it correctly, he also uses 'tercel' and 'falcon' to refer to the male and female respectively. That must cause some problems in translation if the language doesn't have equivalent words.

 

[senior]

In the book, if I'm remembering it correctly, he also uses 'tercel' and 'falcon' to refer to the male and female respectively. That must cause some problems in translation if the language doesn't have equivalent words.

Yes, indeed but it is actually not a problem, there are adequate translations.

 

[senior]

If I were translating the text to Czech, I would simply translate "hawk" as "dravec", meaning literally "bird of prey",

Thank you. I've chosen the same for the Russian translation. Yastreb would be completely out of place.

 

[Patudo]

A fascinating thread. Post #3 by Jim M explains it very well I think. To expand upon his post a little, in falconry the two main groups of raptors used in the old days were the "short-winged hawks" (accipiters) and the "long-winged hawks" (falcons). Falconers today still refer to the two groups as "shortwings" and "longwings". I had thought the term "hawk" was limited to these two groups, excluding eg. harriers and buzzards, so was a little surprised to hear that the term "duck hawk" was once used for the marsh harrier (though who really knows what the locals in deepest Norfolk call their birds!).

I wish the original poster much success and joy with his translation. It's a much-praised book that has influenced quite a few writers that have come after.

PS. what are the Russian terms for the tiercel and female peregrine?

 

[pianoman]

I must say I thought that "tiercel" only referred to a male Merlin but perhaps it is any falcon.
In any case Senior, whatever terminology is used in Russian normal speech would be the correct thing, regardless of the distinctions in other languages.

 

[Patudo]

The male merlin was referred to in falconry as the "jack". Tiercel refers to the male peregrine or, when "goshawk" is added, the male goshawk.

some other names, most of which are pretty esoteric these days, even amongst falconers:

male saker - sakret
male lanner - lanneret
male gyrfalcon - jerkin or gyrkin
male sparrowhawk - musket (interestingly, a term that carried over into the era of firearms)