POLL: Is The RSPB worth Joining ? (1 Viewer)

[Mike Pennington]

Would people always choose RSPB first?

The lobbying value of a organisation with 1000000 members is incalcuable. It gives the RSPB enormous clout and it is one reason why they should probably be your first choice, especially as they fight for habitats not just birds.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Re Ruddy Ducks and native wildfowl

that's not the point of the cull Jason......it's the White-headed Ducks. If Ruddies affect native wildfowl or not is neither here nor there wrt the cull. The fact that RSPB and BirdLife are both behind the cull is another reason for me to support them.

 

[Jasonbirder]

The phrase was

why the RSPB allowed the UK ruddy ducks to increase to the point when they eliminated Spanish white-headed ducks and displaced some of our rarer breeding wildfowl (notably, black-necked grebes)

and I fell that to be a bold claim - there are limited instances of interbreeding between Ruddies and White-headed Ducks (the pretext for the cull) but surely No evidence for interference with native breeders...I think this is just a kite thats being flown to try to reduce opposition to the Ruddy Duck cull in the hope it will be accepted as gospel.

 

[mountain man]

4 questions that I think I know the answers to (but just want to make sure):

1) When was the Ruddy cull first suggested? (It seems like its been going on forever)
2) Is it meant to totally wipe out Ruddies or just reduce numbers?
3) (Concrete evidence only) Has a Ruddy ever reached a W-h.Duck colony?
4) Has the cull actually started?

Yes and no answers preferrable as I'm a busy guy!

 

[Edward woodwood]

well, there is more than limited evidence for the ruddy threat towards WH Duck - we've been here before - have a look at the WWT pages on the problem.

haven't heard of the BNGrebe problem but i wouldn't be entirely suprised if it were true. Perhaps Ian can post a link to some research?

 

[Edward woodwood]

1 Mid 90s
2 erradicate
3 Yes
4 Yes

I spent some time on a survey in Scotland with Dr Baz Hughes (who was head honcho of Ruddy Duck prog. at Slimbridge WWT) right at the outset of the debate (96 I think) .....can't believe the SAME arguments are still going on.

 

[mountain man]

One more question:

Do the RSPB have a contingency plan if (after the cull) Ruddy Duck were to naturally colonise Britain?

 

[Edward woodwood]

Dunno Tom

anyone not up to spped on the issue needs to read this: http://www.wwt.org.uk/threatsp/twsg/bulletins/12/F3.htm

should get rid of a few urban myths

 

[Edward woodwood]

useful fig:

Figure 5. Numbers of Ruddy Ducks and Ruddy Duck x White-headed Duck hybrids shot in Spain, 1984-1999.

 

[Nightranger]

The phrase was
and I fell that to be a bold claim - there are limited instances of interbreeding between Ruddies and White-headed Ducks (the pretext for the cull) but surely No evidence for interference with native breeders...I think this is just a kite thats being flown to try to reduce opposition to the Ruddy Duck cull in the hope it will be accepted as gospel.

Hi Jason,

The paper you are asking about is a WWT published paper (and elsewhere) by Hughes [1992 - I think].

In a way Tim is right, the main deal is the interbreeding issue and it is right to concentrate on this but conservation is about looking to the future (IMO) and I can easily see an argument saying "the RSPB knew that there was problem yet did nothing about it" and they would be right. If the society is going to fail the question just for the sake of diplomacy then it is failing its remit and I for one, would not work for an organisation even at the risk to my career. Ruddy ducks are nest parasites - fact! Black-necked grebes have less than 50 breeding pairs in the UK - fact! Ruddy ducks and black-necked grebes are now in contact - fact! It maybe a side issue but it is a valid one if people insist that the decision was purely political.

 

[Jasonbirder]

I feel more strongly about this issue than just about any conservation issue I can recollect! So the bonus is its motivated me to do something active for once!!! (There you go Tim - you`ve actually got me active on a conservation issue!)

I don`t want to take this thread offtopic (sorry Steve!) but as its likely to be read by people with views one way or another....

Can anyone who feels strongly anti-cull drop me a PM - (i`ve cleared my inbox for you all ) As i`ve a few very simple things that people can do to help me out... (Very little time and no money required so don`t be shy!!! ) I have a few very senior contacts within the Water industry through work and I intend to leverage off that....shameless I know!

 

[mountain man]

Apologies if this is boring, but I think many peoples "Bee up the arse" in relation to the RSPB is based on the Ruddy issue. So I hope these are dumb questions that the more dumb members of BF (myself included of course) would like plain simple answers for.

How common are Ruddies in Europe outside Britain, and are the relevant organisations in those countries also doing or planning similar culls to the RSPB?

 

[Nightranger]

One more question:

Do the RSPB have a contingency plan if (after the cull) Ruddy Duck were to naturally colonise Britain?

Thinks - grey squirrels! Scary! Seriously though, there would be no biological justification for a cull if ruddies had made it here naturally. However, the WHD situation should have been stabilised by then anyway and the second point is that these would be genuine wild birds andthey would be unlikely to interbreed anyway. The problem with UK ruddies is that they are all descended from captive birds and these birds simply do not recognise wild-type behaviour. Strangely enough, this problem is not confined to ruddies and WHD but is all too common especially in Aythya ducks. Essentially, ruddy ducks do not know they are ruddy ducks and although this is a twee way of putting things it is an accurate assessment of what is happening.

 

[mountain man]

these would be genuine wild birds andthey would be unlikely to interbreed anyway.

Any proof?

 

[Alan Hobson]

Quote: "I know of one of the so-called magpie papers you are referring to...The paper did not go into commenting about the habitats at all".


I think you may be thinking of a third paper on Magpies, because at least one of the two I was meaning was a study of one particular estate, and the relationship between Magpies and Song Thrushes there - so of course it concentrated very much on habitats!


Quote: "displaced some of our rarer breeding wildfowl (notably, black-necked grebes)".


I echo Jason's point on this - I know of no evidence at all to back this up.


Quote: "someone who opposes a ruddy duck cull yet would happily have " sparrowhawks boiled in oil".


I'm not at all sure what you mean here. Were you meaning me (as you were answering my point)? In which case, I have never said anything of the kind! Introducing a species I have never referred to one way or the other on BF could be taken, if it was by someone less honourable than yourself, Ian, to be either muddying the waters or a cheap attempt to gain support by the deliberate introduction into the equation of a species very popular on BF. Can we stick to Ruddy Ducks and Magpies, for the purposes of answering my points, please?

 

[Steve]

JasonBirder start a New thread, No harm in discussing it on the Forum.

 

[Nightranger]

haven't heard of the BNGrebe problem but i wouldn't be entirely suprised if it were true. Perhaps Ian can post a link to some research?

I think we should close out the ruddy duck discussion here because that was not the original idea behind the thread but here is the link:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/scientific/ruddy/4.htm

The papers are:

Hughes, B. (1990). The ecology and behaviour of the North American Ruddy Duck Oxyura jamaicensis in Great Britain and its interactions with native waterbirds: a progress report. Wildfowl 41:133-138.

Hughes, B. (1992). The ecology and behaviour of the Ruddy Duck Oxyura jamaicensis jamaicensis (Gmelin) in Great Britain. PhD Thesis, University of Bristol. 212pp.

 

[scampo]

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

I don't wholly agree when it comes to working for an organisation such as the RSPB.

I think the RSPB does, to some of its staff, indeed pay peanuts, Jason. A graduate I met two years ago at Minsmere was paid quite a small salary but wouldn't want to work anywhere else. He certainly was in no position to buy a house on his salary and was struggling to run a car. He was no monkey.

I suspect the high salaries paid by the RSPB are to its marketing and financial people...

 

[trealawboy]

Yes, but you can keep the Birds magazine, I have yet to find an article to interest me, the Kids mags are good though, well my oldest likes them.

Birds magazine is very lightwieght compared to other birding publications.

I sometimes think the RSPB is directing its energies, including Birds magazine, at leaslt in part, at those who have a passing or somewhat general interest in birds/wildlife. An understandable technique I guess, as it presumably maximises membership figures. Most keen birders will join anyway, as well as the BTP, WWT etc.

I let my membership of 16 years lapse a year or two ago, but found myself rejoining this year. Not for entry to the reserves, though that's handy, not for the magazine, but because its a worthy cause. Its a shame about the large slice that goes to the slick marketing/sales pitch they now adopt.

 

[Nightranger]

1. I'm not at all sure what you mean here. Were you meaning me (as you were answering my point)? In which case, I have never said anything of the kind! Introducing a species I have never referred to one way or the other on BF could be taken, if it was by someone less honourable than yourself, Ian, to be either muddying the waters or a cheap attempt to gain support by the deliberate introduction into the equation of a species very popular on BF.

2. Can we stick to Ruddy Ducks and Magpies, for the purposes of answering my points, please?

1. I am sorry to say that is a direct quote from someone who called the office (apologies if you thought I was referring to you though with respect, that was your inference and not what I said ). I honestly wish I was joking about that one although I suppose it should not surprise us too much because it is human nature. For the record, I never convinced the caller they were operating under double-standards [sigh!].

2. Probably better to do as Steve says and start another thread up again. I am sure the subject has been done to death anyway but Tim is putting the Birdlife side too and I would be happy to discuss any of the issues raised providing we can keep things from becoming personal. Steve, would it be possible to shift the posts to another thread so that we do not lose the questions and infomration already provided?