Predator hunting at lake (1 Viewer)

[WayuU]

Hi,

I can't find what species of bird of prey that this one belongs to. The flash marking behind the eye reminds me of an Osprey but not quite the same. It is large, about 1.4 meter wing span.
Another thing that strikes me when I watch this bird (saw it last year too in same area) is that it looks like it has a "fat" head, really fat bordering on owl look when I compare it to all other birds of prey we have here.

Yesterday it hunted a mallard which got away. Last year I saw it hunting and grabbing a Grey heron, also with failure, poor birdie.

Photo taken yesterday in south eastern Sweden on a large lake. This bird prefers hunting among the reeds around the small island costs.

 

[Southern Frogmouth]

It is a European Marsh Harrier.

Roy

 

[ashrich]

Looks like a male Marsh Harrier....

Ashley

 

[tconzemi]

Looks like a male Marsh Harrier....

Ashley

Female Marsh for me

 

[WayuU]

Thanks

Everyone agreeing.

Surprised it's a female Western Marsh Harrier. I have a few Marsh harriers passing by here every day and none of them even come close to looking like this one does. None of the others have the white head and especially not the zig-zag marking. This one also seems much "fatter" around the breast and head area compared to most other predators I see here, especially all the other marsh harriers. In short, VERY different to all other birds of prey around here.

Hard to find any photos on the net where the zig-zag is seen or clearly visible. Haven't found any with such a sharp and detailed zig-zag as mine has.

 

[WayuU]

OK, let me put it into a question format to get some answers on this.

1 - Why can't I find any similar photos of a Marsh harrier, with that distinct strong and sharp edged zig-zag? Very very unusual version/morph of mine?
2 - Min has a very white head, not cream, not grey, but just about as white as can get. I can't see any references to white heads on Western Marsh Harrier in my world best bird ID book.
3 - Why would this particular individual look SO much "fatter", owl like, compared to all other individuals of same species around here?

Maybe it's just as simple as to the level of knowledge about these harriers being very low? No deeper studies done on them.

 

[Andy Hurley]

Female Marsh Harriers are highly variable......

 

[James Lowther]

looks like quite a normal female marsh harrier to me

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4995611191_c50e6719a4.jpg

cheers,
James

 

[birdboybowley]

Agree with James, totally normal.....

 

[WayuU]

looks like quite a normal female marsh harrier to me

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4995611191_c50e6719a4.jpg

cheers,
James

Normal it might be but definitely very uncommon. But if it's normal it should be defined in the best bird ID literature and it's not. So I'm really not convinced about the "normal" statement of yours. I would need literature or photo evidence since I can't find similar individuals when searching the net.

If YOU are right, why don't I find the majority of photos on the internet showing that white head with sharp, contrasty, zig-zag ? I can't even find ONE with that "perfect" zig-zag. If it's "normal" then I would expect most hits should show that, or at least a LOT of them.

The ones I always see here then are not normal since they look so different, yet THEIR markings and colors are explained in my literature.

 

[tconzemi]

Do you mean a zigzag like this?
http://www.natur-server.de/Bilder/HWG/003/hwg002263-Rohrweihe.jpg
head pattern is highly variable in female Marsh Harrier and I can only confirm that this individual looks perfectly normal

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Just a proof that shape, proportions and flight action are often more reliable the plumage to identify.

I also confirm that this is a regular female Circus aeruginosus, having seen thousands of them on migration in Europe, Middle-East and Africa.

 

[delia todd]

Here's an individual in the Gallery of a very white-headed bird: http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=493815

Just a thought... all animals vary slightly surely, which is how people observing say, Ospreys on the nest, know which bird is sitting.

 

[Andy Hurley]

Normal it might be but definitely very uncommon. But if it's normal it should be defined in the best bird ID literature and it's not. So I'm really not convinced about the "normal" statement of yours. I would need literature or photo evidence since I can't find similar individuals when searching the net.

If YOU are right, why don't I find the majority of photos on the internet showing that white head with sharp, contrasty, zig-zag ? I can't even find ONE with that "perfect" zig-zag. If it's "normal" then I would expect most hits should show that, or at least a LOT of them.

The ones I always see here then are not normal since they look so different, yet THEIR markings and colors are explained in my literature.

Because of the variabilty in pattern, most guides will use an illustration of the average bird, although it might not have ever existed. Sometimes birds only show some features. Field Guides are compact by nature and can't possibly fit every variation of every species into its pages. Maybe Adam Bowley can explain the process better than I as he is one of the top bird illustrators around, so he fully understands what goes in to the process of bird art for field guides.

 

[birdboybowley]

Nope, Andy has explained it perfectly.
The zig-zag you seem to be hung up on will change shape as the head moves - it is variable to the nth degree and no two birds will have the exact same pattern. The white head appears to not be that white....even in the over-exposed pics the head is creamy, albeit paler then the throat...which again is perfectly within variation for the species.

 

[Mike Montier]

Agreed. It is possible to see twenty or thirty Marsh harrier in the sky at the same time here and they are indeed highly variable. The photo shows a female Marsh harrier with nothing too unusual about it, dark brown with creamy crown and forewing (it is this latter feature that is variable)

 

[WayuU]

Because of the variabilty in pattern, most guides will use an illustration of the average bird, although it might not have ever existed. Sometimes birds only show some features. Field Guides are compact by nature and can't possibly fit every variation of every species into its pages.

And since this individual is so "normal" (average bird I would equate it to) according to everyone, then why isn't that explained in the guides?
The bird guides don't need to fit every variation into their book since this individual is a normal/common one according to everyone here and by default then that description should clearly be entered in the simplest of guides.

 

[WayuU]

Nope, Andy has explained it perfectly.
The zig-zag you seem to be hung up on will change shape as the head moves - it is variable to the nth degree and no two birds will have the exact same pattern. The white head appears to not be that white....even in the over-exposed pics the head is creamy, albeit paler then the throat...which again is perfectly within variation for the species.

The shape change when moving head is minimal and nothing to consider in ID purposes.
Patterns on animals are by nature different for every individual, no matter if it's a human (freckles etc.), Tiger, Bird, Toad, Wasp, etc.

The white head of this individual may not appear white but that may be because of your monitor calibration and settings. I can promise you that the head is just as white as all the Osprey's I have around here. But maybe you see the Osprey head as creamy too, that would explain how we so differently define the colors of what we are looking at. There are no OE areas in my photos.

 

[WayuU]

I don't think we will get any further on this discussion.

We will have to settle for this. Net search shows that it's wrong calling this individuals patterns and coloring as normal since normal would show at least a few hits on a net search for this species. It's also proven not normal since the bird guides don't have these patterns/coloring (which you say is NORMAL) in their descriptions. Normal and common appearances should/have to be primarily entered in compact guides.

I do thank you guys for the discussion and especially for the photos of the individuals that look VERY much like mine, photos I was unable to find by searching the net.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

WayuU,

I teach about bird and in some classrooms I show a simple Goldfinch, an excellent photo. I ask a description. The breast patch is typically described with 7 different colours...


Just to proof than colours are tough to use, better use pattern (is the head pale or not?), shape, action and behaviour.