Rats on Lundy (1 Viewer)

[Andrew]

It is turning out to be a conflicting issue. There are culls desired in many areas, anglers want cormorants shot, Gamekeepers want raptors shot, people want cockroaches squashed, the list goes on. If we were given the whole list of culling requests I think we would be shocked at how many birds are on the list so we should leave it to nature to find it's own balance (quote Monkeyman) and learn from our mistakes.

So this has been a strong and effective debate because I have now changed my attitude completely all culls should not take place.

The fact that some species will disappear only affects us because we are feeling guilty about it. We should suffer it because we deserve it!!!

I know these poor birds (Ruddy Duck, WH DUck or Lundy birds) will suffer whatever the out come, but it is our fault and the innocents should not be killed for it.

We need to rethink our tactics and learn not to tamper with nature. I won't bring up another subject relevent to this for fear of stirring the pot!!

 

[Steve]

" I know lets cull the passenger pigeon, we can blast them out of the trees with canons! whats a few Rats matter"

 

[Steve]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT you are now against culling?
wish I could change my Bank managers ideas as quick as yours:bounce: B

 

[alan_rymer]

Steve

Isn’t that what a debate is all about?. To change the understanding of your opponents in the debate through reasoned and factual argument?.

 

[alan_rymer]

Andrew

We tamper with nature every day in many ways. You can't help it. Just feeding the birds is tampering, as is watching them if they know they are being watched.
Just try not to alter things. If you do and can change things back without causing more damage. Do it.
If like the eradication of these rats, Its too big for a single individual to do anything, then it must be done by groups like the RSPB etc. Even a decision not to do anything is a decision that people will argue with!.

One last comment. Animal Aid as a conservation group prefers the "hands off" approach. No human intervention ever does any good!.

 

[Stuart]

I think we are forgetting one thing in all this and thats the people who live and work on Lundy itself.Surely they should have a say into what happens............ the Island is small and relies a lot on visitors and tourist's, who's gonna pay to see a Island full of rat's !!! Hand's up ............not me8-P


If it was left as is, would all the birds of the island die out, would the rat's take over and end up runnin the bar themselve'sB our would it level out???

Mine's a pint of lager Mr Ratman if u please:t:

 

[Steve]

If you cull them, people that want to see Britains rarest mammal will be there in there thousands. I have never seen one Have you????

 

[Andrew]

Imagine the holiday advertisements! 'Welcome to Lundy, Rat Paradise!'

It was the comment on emotions that changed my thinking. We really do these things cos we feel guilty of 'tampering with nature' as Alan said.

 

[Stuart]

Well, ive seen a few on Lundy, not sure if they were black or not, I was too busy reloading my gun 3

 

[Andrew]

I can't see menfolk successfully persuading their women partners to visit Lundy for the Rats!!!

 

[Steve]

Agreed andrew, all joking apart I dont know what the answer is,
it seems to me that if we can spend thousands on culling, we could spend a few bob on rat birth control pills or something.
stop them breeding for a few years , then see where the land lies.

 

[Andrew]

I suggested neutering but that would be comical. Imagine watching a vet with table, etc.. operating on 40,000 rats! You got it right, birth control tasty pills.

 

[Booga]

I'm not sure if it's the same for Black rats, but I was informed by an expert last year of an experiment in the USA with Brown rats.

A single breeding pair, in a controlled inviroment (i.e. food supplied, no predators), produced a family tree of 20,000+ rats within the space of a year. In the case of Lundy, with no room for spread, and a fully stoked larder (birds and eggs) it is somehow evocative of the experiment.

I totaly agree with Steve and Andrew with regards to birth control, current rat poisons are in the form of bait, so why not birth control drugs in the form of bait? In fact on the subject of culls, could the same not be applied to the Ruddy Ducks?, Then they could all live, no cull, and no decline in purebreed WHD in spain!

Food for thought?

 

[Andrew]

I can see the rats being controlled by placing bait near the nests or tunnels but how do we make sure just the RD takes the pellet. We all know what happens in a park when you throw in one piece of bread. Tricky.

 

[Booga]

Thank god it's not up to me! Cheers Andrew, I never thought of that. I'd still rather have a batch of sterile living duck of various breeds than tons of dead RD though. Maybe if this was feasible it should only be carried out in sites where RD are predominant over other species to minimise fallout?

 

[Andrew]

It is obvious from the threads on culls they need to be thought out but the problem is in some cases we haven't got time to think.

 

[winkle]

Must disagree with Alan about no human intervention does any good.

It's because of intervention that that have to have your eyes closed out birding in North Kent not to see Marsh Harrier or Avocet.

Flourishing population of Heath Fritillary in Canterbury's woods 'cos of active woodland management.

Late Spider Orchid and Monkey Orchid back from the brink.

Otters back on Kent's rivers.

The list is endless.

 

[alan_rymer]

winkle

Must disagree with Alan about no human intervention does any good.
Did I say that?.
If I did, what I meant was:-
Anything we do changes things. For some creatures there will be benefits and for some, the opposite!


6 Mar 03 21:25
Winkle.

Just read my posts.

What I said was:

"Animal Aid as a conservation group prefers the "hands off" approach. No human intervention ever does any good!."

Meaning, leave it, and it will sort itself out!

At least, thats my impression!.

 

[seb_seb]

eRATicate!!! but seriously i think a cull would be quite stupid...has any ever successfully removed rats from anywhere?.......probably not. If just a few survived after the culling they would soon regain in numbers...they can eat anything they can live off plastic and bark.They are also intelligent and i remember reading that after some time of poisoning the rats could actually sniff out the poison, and avoided it!

 

[Andrew]

I mentioned this to someone and he kindly pointed me to this website link, it might help some make their minds up. It has added some confusion to my train of thought but I still believe in no culls of any kind. . . .

http://www.english-nature.org.uk/news/story.asp?ID=441