Red Kite on Cape Verde / Boavista 2023 (1 Viewer)

[christoph.randler]

Dear community,
during our holiday trip, we had this kite (red kite) on Boavista at the Lacacao sewage pond near Hotel Touareg (13.8.2023). It looks more like a red kite, but taxonomic situation seems unlcear (hybridization?)... is it probably just a migrant from Europe or a resident CV bird? It was seen together with a pale-morph Booted Eagle.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Why not a Black Kite?

 

[KC Foggin]

They sure are beautiful aerial images of this Kite!!

 

[tconzemi]

ID points later, Andy is right, it's a Black Kite with a strange reddish cast to uppertail

 

[tconzemi]

23 years ago: The Imminent Extinction of the Kites (…) on the Cabo Verde Islands
This makes your observation very interesting

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289746844_The_imminent_extinction_of_the_Kites_Milvus_milvus_fasciicauda_and_Milvus_M_Migrans_on_the_Cape_Verde_Islands

 

[lockbreeze926]

That is interesting, Tom, because this is an odd-looking bird. Bits of it make sense, but the whole does not.

Thank you, Christoph.

 

[jogresh]

That's an interesting paper, thanks.

I've had a quick look for images of Cape Verde Kite without success.

 

[christoph.randler]

Thank you, will upload some more photos when back home. I have found another paper here: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/...KMKtFELoNBiVRe4Ra-OibalobdUWIz1qFOQouQcLDz4x2

suggesting that there are no red kites anymore, but authors point towards hybridization (will check at home where I have a lot of papers on "paper" about hybrids); any comments still welcome, thank you

 

[tconzemi]

ID points pro Black Kite:

• 6 fingers in Black Kite not applicable as 6th finger still growing (5 in RK)
• small white panel on fingers not going down to inner primaries
• body streaking very fine, almost invisible (bold in Red Kite)
• very shallow fork
• all tail feathers are barred

Unusual

• reddish tinge to tail, especially on upperside (should be brown in Black Kite)

So maybe Black Kite with some fasciicauda genes, defenitely worth to send pictures to Dick Forsman dick at dickforsman.com and to African Bird Club to be included in next Bulletin [email protected]

 

[jogresh]

Thanks for the pointers.
The wing shape (broader, not long and slender) especially in 6213 is also a pointer away from Red Kite for me. I'd love to see pics of Cape Verde Kite if any exist.. 🤔

 

[jurek]

A little piece of island biogeography in action?

20 years after the extinction of local populations, the islands are colonized by kites again. It is something seen in the prehistoric material of houbaras in Canary Islands and white-throated rails in Aldabra.

 

[THE_FERN]

A little piece of island biogeography in action?

20 years after the extinction of local populations, the islands are colonized by kites again. It is something seen in the prehistoric material of houbaras in Canary Islands and white-throated rails in Aldabra.

Did houbara become extinct there, then?

 

[jurek]

"Archaeological evidence indicates that it has been present in the Canary Islands for 130–170,000 years. However, genetic data point to a more recent separation of C. u. fuertaventurae from the nominate subspecies around 20–25,000 years ago. It suggests that there was an initial colonisation of the Canary Islands about 130,000 years ago, followed by a second colonisation 19-30 000 years ago, with subsequent isolation until today.[4]"

Canarian houbara - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Idaghdour, Y.; Broderick, D.; Korrida, A. & Chbel, F. (2004). "Mitochondrial control region diversity of the houbara bustard Chlamydotis undulata complex". Molecular Ecology. 13 (1): 43–54. doi:10.1046/j.1365-294X.2003.02039.x. PMID 14653787. S2CID 25591653.[/I]

In island zoology, it is predicted that small islands should be colonized by waves of migrating animals from the mainland, many of which die out. But it is interesting to see an example in real time.

 

[THE_FERN]

"Archaeological evidence indicates that it has been present in the Canary Islands for 130–170,000 years. However, genetic data point to a more recent separation of C. u. fuertaventurae from the nominate subspecies around 20–25,000 years ago. It suggests that there was an initial colonisation of the Canary Islands about 130,000 years ago, followed by a second colonisation 19-30 000 years ago, with subsequent isolation until today.[4]"

Canarian houbara - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Idaghdour, Y.; Broderick, D.; Korrida, A. & Chbel, F. (2004). "Mitochondrial control region diversity of the houbara bustard Chlamydotis undulata complex". Molecular Ecology. 13 (1): 43–54. doi:10.1046/j.1365-294X.2003.02039.x. PMID 14653787. S2CID 25591653.[/I]

In island zoology, it is predicted that small islands should be colonized by waves of migrating animals from the mainland, many of which die out. But it is interesting to see an example in real time.

Nothing here about extinction. Perhaps blue tit gives a clearer example of multiple waves of colonisation in the canaries. The various extinct endemic _Pterodroma_s a better example of extinctions

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

ID points pro Black Kite:

• 6 fingers in Black Kite not applicable as 6th finger still growing (5 in RK)
• small white panel on fingers not going down to inner primaries
• body streaking very fine, almost invisible (bold in Red Kite)
• very shallow fork
• all tail feathers are barred

Unusual

• reddish tinge to tail, especially on upperside (should be brown in Black Kite)

So maybe Black Kite with some fasciicauda genes, defenitely worth to send pictures to Dick Forsman dick at dickforsman.com and to African Bird Club to be included in next Bulletin [email protected]

weren´t barred tailfeathers also a fasciicauda trait?

 

[Andy Adcock]

weren´t barred tailfeathers also a fasciicauda trait?

No linguist but I think that's what fasciicauda actually means?

 

[tconzemi]

The better question may be: does or did fasciicauda ever exist

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Actually I meant : weren´t all tailfeathers barred also a fasciicauda trait ?

the meaning of fasciicauda was clear to me ...

The attached paper may be interesting in respect to Toms question, but I think it was already at least linked in this thread...

 

[tconzemi]

Actually I meant : weren´t all tailfeathers barred also a fasciicauda trait ?
the meaning of fasciicauda was clear to me ...

Very few descriptions around, this is from e-bird

Identification Summary​

Smaller and browner overall than nominate, with shorter, more rounded wings. The tail fork is shallower than in nominate, and the tail somewhat shorter. Less pronounced rufous edgings on upperparts, reddish crown and nape (gray-white in nominate), less rufous underparts, and inner webs of primaries basally pale gray with darker gray marbling (virtually all-white in nominate) (11, 1, 12, 8). In some aspects, this form is somewhat intermediate between Red Kite and Black Kite (Milvus migrans).

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

i checked some books and found it in R. Ortlieb, Der Rotmilan , Neue Brehm-Bücherei, 3. revised Edition 1989, which gives a similar description wih the adition that the tail is shallower forked than in nominate milvus and with marked dark bands; but he thinks after correspondence with de Naurois , that all fasciicauda types at that time were probably already hybridized. he also sais that de Naurois mentions two birds in Lisbon Museum with unbanded red tails from a series of 20-25 birds (probably in several museums).
He thought that those two may have been close to the real fasciicauda- which would make the naming a bit strange....