Rubber on EII (1 Viewer)

[Otto McDiesel]

This is the second report in these threads of EII leatherette loosening, which makes me wonder if these are more than isolated cases.

It is more than one isolated case. I would venture to guess that it is the reason for the discontinuing of the EII series. The problem is in the type of rubber used, how the surfaces are prepared before applying the glue, and the type of glue used.

The rubber seems to have a very stable composition, and does not accept easy contact and "melt" with glues. It also has an extremely smooth surface, which is not conducive to increased contact area between rubber and glue and metal.
The glue used is just an "el cheapo" kind, sensitive to temperature changes.
The metal surface is very smooth anodized AlMg alloy. Because of its smooth surface, any glue will have a reduced surface to bond to.

I have a pair of 10x35 EII that did not survive a hot New Mexico summer without loss of some rubber. I sent the whole thing back to Nikon, and it was promptly (2 weeks) re-glued. The rubber went loose the very first morning when i went birding again.

At that point i decided to take matters into my own hands. I taped (masking tape) lenses and other surfaces that i did not want to damage.
I peeled all of the remaining rubber. I cleaned, scoured, and scratched the metal surface with acetone, knife, and 180 grit sandpaper. After this operation, most of the metal surface was clean, exposed, rough looking metal.
I also used sandpaper to roughen the surface of the rubber.
I cleaned everything with a alcohol and cotton.
I used Acraglas gel mixed with atomized aluminum, and smeared this goo on the rubber with Qtips (cotton tipped sticks).
I placed the rubber in the right place.
This process was slow and careful. I worked in 6 phases, because i could not glue the rubber on one side and then move on and handle the binoculars and glue on the other side. It was a 3 day process.
I had cotton balls with vinegar and with alcohol to clean any excess Acraglas. Being a gel, it only oozed a little at the edges of the rubber.
It turned out unbelievably well (whenever I start projects like this I assume complete screw-up responsibility). The binoculars had a weird smell for a few days, but it’s ok now. The rubber is so solid that it will take a bullet to get it off the metal. Upon close examination, there are absolutely no visible signs that any repair has ever been done. To test my work, I kept the binoculars in a freezer at -10 Celsius over night, and in an oven at +45 Celsius for 2 days. The rubber is all there, tough as nails, and the binoculars are solid like a rock.

I believe that the 8x30 and 10x35 EII binoculars are so good, that the engineering flaw of bad rubber cover is just a minor thing.

Acraglas is an epoxy resin commonly used in custom/high grade rifles to ensure proper fit between stocks and metal.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1038

Try this at your own risk.

 

[Pinewood]

Otto,
Do you think that this may be a hot weather or tropical occurence? I like the 8x30 EII, but I can use a differet glass to avoid either the problem or your solution.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

 

[DavidP]

Otto,
Do you think that this may be a hot weather or tropical occurence? I like the 8x30 EII, but I can use a differet glass to avoid either the problem or your solution.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

Haven't had that problem yet and it can get pretty hot out here 106 last week.

 

[Pileatus]

It is more than one isolated case. I would venture to guess that it is the reason for the discontinuing of the EII series. The problem is in the type of rubber used, how the surfaces are prepared before applying the glue, and the type of glue used.

The rubber seems to have a very stable composition, and does not accept easy contact and "melt" with glues. It also has an extremely smooth surface, which is not conducive to increased contact area between rubber and glue and metal.
The glue used is just an "el cheapo" kind, sensitive to temperature changes.
The metal surface is very smooth anodized AlMg alloy. Because of its smooth surface, any glue will have a reduced surface to bond to.

I have a pair of 10x35 EII that did not survive a hot New Mexico summer without loss of some rubber. I sent the whole thing back to Nikon, and it was promptly (2 weeks) re-glued. The rubber went loose the very first morning when i went birding again.

At that point i decided to take matters into my own hands. I taped (masking tape) lenses and other surfaces that i did not want to damage.
I peeled all of the remaining rubber. I cleaned, scoured, and scratched the metal surface with acetone, knife, and 180 grit sandpaper. After this operation, most of the metal surface was clean, exposed, rough looking metal.
I also used sandpaper to roughen the surface of the rubber.
I cleaned everything with a alcohol and cotton.
I used Acraglas gel mixed with atomized aluminum, and smeared this goo on the rubber with Qtips (cotton tipped sticks).
I placed the rubber in the right place.
This process was slow and careful. I worked in 6 phases, because i could not glue the rubber on one side and then move on and handle the binoculars and glue on the other side. It was a 3 day process.
I had cotton balls with vinegar and with alcohol to clean any excess Acraglas. Being a gel, it only oozed a little at the edges of the rubber.
It turned out unbelievably well (whenever I start projects like this I assume complete screw-up responsibility). The binoculars had a weird smell for a few days, but it’s ok now. The rubber is so solid that it will take a bullet to get it off the metal. Upon close examination, there are absolutely no visible signs that any repair has ever been done. To test my work, I kept the binoculars in a freezer at -10 Celsius over night, and in an oven at +45 Celsius for 2 days. The rubber is all there, tough as nails, and the binoculars are solid like a rock.

I believe that the 8x30 and 10x35 EII binoculars are so good, that the engineering flaw of bad rubber cover is just a minor thing.

Acraglas is an epoxy resin commonly used in custom/high grade rifles to ensure proper fit between stocks and metal.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1038

Try this at your own risk.

Otto,

That was a most interesting post!

John

 

[Otto McDiesel]

Otto,
Do you think that this may be a hot weather or tropical occurence? I like the 8x30 EII, but I can use a differet glass to avoid either the problem or your solution.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

I have no clue Arthur. I am guessing that hot weather causes the rubber to expand and break away from the glue (the glue stays on the binocular body). It may be just bad glue regardless of weather.
If Nikon Inc. has a database of all their repairs (they should have), a search for loose rubber on EII and the geographic origin of requests for repair may reveal a possible relationship between hot climate and loose rubber.

 

[matt green]

well done on you home repair otto,i think you may have a few pm's from E11 owners requesting your expert repairing skills by the morning.matt

 

[Robert Ellis]

This is why I prefer the rubber on the old Swifts to the E2. My 10x35 has bubbles already and I hardly have used it in the months I have owned it, but it was a store demo for years. Then again, the E2 is not supposed to be rubber ARMORED, the rubber is merely imitation leather without the slickness of real leather at reduced cost.

 

[iporali]

It is more than one isolated case. I would venture to guess that it is the reason for the discontinuing of the EII series. The problem is in the type of rubber used, how the surfaces are prepared before applying the glue, and the type of glue used.

They have probably used the same "glue" for the small rubber sheets on the Coolpix 9xx/4500 cameras. I have used the 950, 990 and 4500 and the sheets just always seem to peel away.

Ilkka

 

[seawatcher]

They have probably used the same "glue" for the small rubber sheets on the Coolpix 9xx/4500 cameras. I have used the 950, 990 and 4500 and the sheets just always seem to peel away.

Ilkka

Very true - mine peeled off my CP 4500 after two months use. I have owned other makes of binocular with imitation leather covering rather than rubber armouring and found that the covering peels off in the heat. In my experience it's not just Nikon binocs that suffer from this.

 

[Otto McDiesel]

Very true - mine peeled off my CP 4500 after two months use. I have owned other makes of binocular with imitation leather covering rather than rubber armouring and found that the covering peels off in the heat. In my experience it's not just Nikon binocs that suffer from this.

When i glued by binoculars with Acraglas gel and a bit (1:6) of aluminum powder, some of the glue was left in the paper cup on the porch, perhaps 1 centimeter cube. I wanted to see how strong it was, so i put that hardened glue on the concrete on the driveway and slowly began hammering it. I soon realized that this stuff is strong, and began hitting it with all my strength with the 2 pound hammer. Well, after 3 minutes the concrete chipped, the paper cup was gone, but the hardened epoxy was still there in one piece.
So, beware of what you do with that stuff, cuz' it's forever.

 

[ceasar]

To Otto and all above:
I was out on the deck this AM with my refurbished 10 x 35 E's purchased 2 months ago and soon to run out of it's 90 day warranty. (The price I paid was VERY reasonable. They were demo's.) I noticed bubbles starting to appear in the rubber covering. This is exactly what happened with my 8 x 30 E2's after about 3 months. Quite frankly, both these bins are too damned good to return and I intend to keep both. Returning them to Nikon for cosmetic repairs like this appears to be a waste of time. I tried repairing the 8 x 30's using Pliobond Glue, but it's starting to come loose now. Like Otto notes, both surfaces seem too slick or smooth to hold the glue. If I try to do what Otto did to repair his I'm certain I will be hauled off in a strait-jacket in short order. Does anyone have any ideas on this?

 

[mooreorless]

When i glued by binoculars with Acraglas gel and a bit (1:6) of aluminum powder, some of the glue was left in the paper cup on the porch, perhaps 1 centimeter cube. I wanted to see how strong it was, so i put that hardened glue on the concrete on the driveway and slowly began hammering it. I soon realized that this stuff is strong, and began hitting it with all my strength with the 2 pound hammer. Well, after 3 minutes the concrete chipped, the paper cup was gone, but the hardened epoxy was still there in one piece.
So, beware of what you do with that stuff, cuz' it's forever.

Hi Otto,I have used Acraglas and Brownell also sells Acra-weld and it works extremely well and can be used around gasoline,I repaired a gas thank with Acra-weld.I never used this stuff on binoculars but this is good to know.Smart idea to do this Otto.
Regards,Steve