Seeking help with binocular/eyesight conundrum (1 Viewer)

[Sheepwatcher]

I have a close friend who enjoys birding but reports that he "can't use binoculars". When he tries, he is unable to see simultaneously with both eyes and finds them very awkward and uncomfortable to use. He has objectively terrible eyesight -- nearsightedness, astigmatism, and some cataracts, but with glasses he is corrected to 20/40. In the past, he has mostly used low-quality porros, but I'm not sure if this is at the root of his problem. He has an understanding of adjusting diopter and IPD. I recently handed him a pair of Swarovski EL SV 10x32s to try, and he said it was the first pair he was able to see through comfortably, forming a clear combined image through both eyes. He would love to buy a pair pf binoculars that work similarly for him without spending more money than necessary. Since I have an N of 1, I'm unclear what about my ELs worked for him when nothing else did, and therefore unable to extrapolate to what other binoculars might also work. He's going to be using them with his glasses, so generous eye relief is necessary, but I'm unsure what else to guide him toward. If a pair of Conquest HDs worked, I think he'd be happy with that price, but could go higher if necessary. I'd be grateful for any thoughts folks might have.

Thanks!

Milton

 

[Jinac]

Hum...weird that nothing else worked...
Has he even try "usable" bino and not out of collimation or with an IPD to high ?
Reading you, the traditional advice "try first" has never been so true I think...

 

[Sheepwatcher]

Hum...weird that nothing else worked...
Has he even try "usable" bino and not out of collimation or with an IPD to high ?
Reading you, the traditional advice "try first" has never been so true I think...

I checked a couple of the pairs that didn't work for him. Collimation was fine, and IPD adjustment was adequate, though optical quality was just meh.

 

[jring]

I checked a couple of the pairs that didn't work for him. Collimation was fine, and IPD adjustment was adequate, though optical quality was just meh.

Hi,

did you try them with glasses comparable to his in size and eye distance?

Joachim

 

[Sheepwatcher]

Hi,

did you try them with glasses comparable to his in size and eye distance?

Joachim

I didn't, but I don't think eye distance would change collimation, no? I think it may be true that he hasn't had a binocular with adequate eye relief before. I was just trying to verify that there was nothing grossly non-functional with the other binoculars he had used.

 

[mwhogue]

I have a close friend who enjoys birding but reports that he "can't use binoculars". When he tries, he is unable to see simultaneously with both eyes and finds them very awkward and uncomfortable to use. He has objectively terrible eyesight -- nearsightedness, astigmatism, and some cataracts, but with glasses he is corrected to 20/40. In the past, he has mostly used low-quality porros, but I'm not sure if this is at the root of his problem. He has an understanding of adjusting diopter and IPD. I recently handed him a pair of Swarovski EL SV 10x32s to try, and he said it was the first pair he was able to see through comfortably, forming a clear combined image through both eyes. He would love to buy a pair pf binoculars that work similarly for him without spending more money than necessary. Since I have an N of 1, I'm unclear what about my ELs worked for him when nothing else did, and therefore unable to extrapolate to what other binoculars might also work. He's going to be using them with his glasses, so generous eye relief is necessary, but I'm unsure what else to guide him toward. If a pair of Conquest HDs worked, I think he'd be happy with that price, but could go higher if necessary. I'd be grateful for any thoughts folks might have.

Thanks!

Milton

Milton,

I haven't checked the prices recently but the place to start may be to look for a used EL SV 10x32 that your friend could afford since he got along well with yours and especially with his particular glasses. I think it would be difficult for anyone to productively extrapolate regarding a different model that would work reasonably well given his issues and somewhat unique experience of being able to use a SV 10x32 more comfortably than the others he has tried. That said if the budget won't accommodate the SV, a Conquest HD would be a good one for him to try.

Mike

 

[jring]

I didn't, but I don't think eye distance would change collimation, no? I think it may be true that he hasn't had a binocular with adequate eye relief before. I was just trying to verify that there was nothing grossly non-functional with the other binoculars he had used.

Hi,

the idea was lack of eye relief resulting into an unusably small field of view... not sure though if that can lead to non-merging images unless the eyes are 2" behind the eyelens or more...

Joachim

 

[Maljunulo]

Milton,

I haven't checked the prices recently but the place to start may be to look for a used EL SV 10x32 that your friend could afford since he got along well with yours and especially with his particular glasses. I think it would be difficult for anyone to productively extrapolate regarding a different model that would work reasonably well given his issues and somewhat unique experience of being able to use a SV 10x32 more comfortably than the others he has tried. That said if the budget won't accommodate the SV, a Conquest HD would be a good one for him to try.

Mike

I agree with Mike.

(for whatever that’s worth)

 

[Patudo]

I reckon jring may have nailed it. There's a good chance that "low quality porros" may not have enough eye relief to use with glasses. Some inexpensive ones do (Nikon 7x35 Action EX) but many don't; and if you have significant astigmatism and nearsightedness the binocular may be impossible to use without glasses.

Best thing would be to take him to a good optics store (or even an average one) and have him try a few different models. There's a decent chance something in the Conquest price bracket or less (indeed potentially a fair bit less) will work for him. I wish him the best of luck in his search!

 

[GrampaTom]

A long shot maybe... has your friend been evaluated by Optometrist or Opthalmologist for double vision?
I can elaborate

 

[Montereyman]

I would take him on birding group excursions where he can try a wide range of binoculars.

 

[Hermann]

If that guy doesn't suffer from double vision if he doesn't use binoculars, his problems with binoculars are most likely somehow related to the binoculars. If his binoculars are at least reasonably well collimated, there are still various possiblities:

1. Are the binoculars that don't work for him all porros? If so his problems may be somehow related to the stereopsis of porros. I once met a guy who mentioned he couldn't use porros at all, they gave him a headache. He was fine with roofs.
2. The IPD isn't exactly right. Some people are quite sensitive to that, especially people who wear eyeglasses. I need to fiddle around with new binoculars for some considerable time until I'm happy with the IPD. And I don't lend my binoculars to anyone who might change the IPD seetings. This got worse after I switched from using contact lenses to eyeglasses. Nowadays I feel the IPD has to be right to under 0.5mm.
3. The eye cups aren't set right or the binoculars have too much or too little eye relief. I find setting the eyecups just right is more difficult if you wear eyeglasses. Without eyeglasses you can sort of "vary" the distance between the binoculars and your eyes. With eyeglasses not so much.

Hermann

 

[GrampaTom]

Possible.

I’ve written about this before. I had a Bino experience one day, after returning from birding (same day). I took binos I’d just used to end of hall to check for Red Tailed Hawk we get there zooming around from time to time. Got looking at neighboring buildings and was seeing double images through Bino. Thought collimation? Closed eyes, rested them a bit. Was able to see single view. Guessed eyes were just tired.

Zoom ahead almost a year later I had Cararact surgery in both eyes with new lens correcting Astigmatism. Post surgery didn’t go quite as smoothly as many/most report. Working through various things, one day stopped at a light while driving, staring at sign ahead I noticed the sign was first blurry, then as I stared, split into two distinct images.

Then sent to Neuro Opthalmologist who diagnosed mild ish double vision and given glasses with prism lens.

Point? What I was mostly experiencing as a bit of blurring was in fact the image splitting into two. Condition had been present all along. It is what I saw through Bino that day months earlier. I get the urge to look at the optic. Might just be Bino. Might not though.

Just my experience.

 

[Sheepwatcher]

If that guy doesn't suffer from double vision if he doesn't use binoculars, his problems with binoculars are most likely somehow related to the binoculars. If his binoculars are at least reasonably well collimated, there are still various possiblities:

1. Are the binoculars that don't work for him all porros? If so his problems may be somehow related to the stereopsis of porros. I once met a guy who mentioned he couldn't use porros at all, they gave him a headache. He was fine with roofs.
2. The IPD isn't exactly right. Some people are quite sensitive to that, especially people who wear eyeglasses. I need to fiddle around with new binoculars for some considerable time until I'm happy with the IPD. And I don't lend my binoculars to anyone who might change the IPD seetings. This got worse after I switched from using contact lenses to eyeglasses. Nowadays I feel the IPD has to be right to under 0.5mm.
3. The eye cups aren't set right or the binoculars have too much or too little eye relief. I find setting the eyecups just right is more difficult if you wear eyeglasses. Without eyeglasses you can sort of "vary" the distance between the binoculars and your eyes. With eyeglasses not so much.

Hermann

Hermann,

Thank you very much for these insights. I hadn't considered that there might be some problem for him inherent in using porros. It's true that no porros I have tested work for him, and all roofs do so far. I was thinking that it was a question of eye relief, but that may not be the issue. He has had success with Ultravids which are problematic for many with glasses. So far ELs, Ultravids, and Zeiss SFs all work for him, while Nikon SE 8x32s did not, along with all the cheap porros that he owns that don't work. I hope it's not just that his eyes have expensive taste...
Cheers,

Milton

 

[Patudo]

Are the binoculars that don't work for him all porros? If so his problems may be somehow related to the stereopsis of porros. I once met a guy who mentioned he couldn't use porros at all, they gave him a headache. He was fine with roofs.

So far ELs, Ultravids, and Zeiss SFs all work for him, while Nikon SE 8x32s did not, along with all the cheap porros that he owns that don't work.

That's really interesting. I'm not quite at the stage where I can't use porros (fortunately, as most of my binoculars are porros!), but I've definitely noted that almost all the porros I own/have owned, all the way up to the most modern flat field/long eye relief Nikon SE, have needed a bit of practice to "learn how to look through" (so to speak); whereas the image of roofs has tended to be more immediately "accessible". I have tended to put it down to the view of a roof being more "straight through"