SFL vs HDX? (1 Viewer)

[GrampaTom]

Have I missed it? Have we had one? Tried the search function... Can someone if not?

 

[adhoc]

GT, I cannot find a direct comparison, but with patience—good luck!—you may be able to figure out comparisons in some areas of interest from the two threads by Jackjack—thank you, JJ, for these also!—on SFL vs CHD linked here and CHD vs CHDX here.

 

[MiddleRiver]

I know it’s not what you are asking but if you have other SFL quez LMK. Got both 8x…

 

[Slc88c]

I got one of the last old HD's and I think it turned out to be a wise choice.

 

[tenex]

It's possible that there haven't been many direct SFL-HD(X) comparisons because the prices seem to put them in different classes, and a dramatic weight difference has probably already been decisive for many. But one does wonder what the "UHD concept" really amounts to etc.

 

[GrampaTom]

It's possible that there haven't been many direct SFL-HD(X) comparisons because the prices seem to put them in different classes, and a dramatic weight difference has probably already been decisive for many. But one does wonder what the "UHD concept" really amounts to etc.

It is curious. To me the comparison seems almost inevitable. If one were standing in a good bino store (admittedly hard to find), looking at and through the 2, (3), HDX (HDs going, going, almost gone), SFL and maybe SF, Id be asking what does one get for the price difference and is it worth it.

Weight-wise:
HDX 8x32 21.9oz
HDX 8x42 25.2oz
SFL 8x40 22.6oz

 

[Dennis Mau]

Purchasing the HD, HDX or SFL comes down to price. If I can get an SFL for $1100 like Greentoe had them I will probably buy the SFL over the HDX for $1000 but then again I just might be tempted by the HD for $600! Not a hill of beans difference optically between all three, except the ergonomics are better on the SFL and the focuser is smoother.

 

[GrampaTom]

Purchasing the HD, HDX or SFL comes down to price. If I can get an SFL for $1100 like Greentoe had them I will probably buy the SFL over the HDX for $1000 but then again I just might be tempted by the HD for $600! Not a hill of beans difference optically between all three, except the ergonomics are better on the SFL and the focuser is smoother.

A bit of over simplification methinks Dennis... It is about what do we get for what we're being asked to pay. A bino is not just 1 or 2 selected attributes that one uses to try and make a case for their latest favorite. Its the combination of all optical attributes, plus weight, length, girth, balance, location and feel of controls, visual package, brand image, customer support, and price. Was hoping to hear from Canip, Roger Vine, Chuck or Jack Jack to try and move beyond the opinionating.

 

[Dennis Mau]

A bit of over simplification methinks Dennis... It is about what do we get for what we're being asked to pay. A bino is not just 1 or 2 selected attributes that one uses to try and make a case for their latest favorite. Its the combination of all optical attributes, plus weight, length, girth, balance, location and feel of controls, visual package, brand image, customer support, and price. Was hoping to hear from Canip, Roger Vine, Chuck or Jack Jack to try and move beyond the opinionating.

Jackjack likes the SFL over the HDX and HD, but it comes down to how much more is the SFL worth over the HD and HDX to you personally. You are correct, when you say, only you can make that decision. I feel at retail prices the HD represents the best value at its current price of $600 with the HDX next at $1000 and the SFL third at $1800. The HD and HDX are very good binoculars, and there are no huge differences between them and the SFL. But if I could get the SFL for $1100 the picture changes and I just might pop for the SFL. With the current discounts on the SFL, I would never pay retail for them anyway because there are too many sales on them if you are patient. Here is the Zeiss SFL 8x40 for less than $1094.36 again at Greentoe for a $700 discount!

ZEISS 8x40 SFL Binoculars 524023-0000-000 Greentoe

Buy ZEISS 8x40 SFL Binoculars featuring UHD Optics, ZEISS T* Multicoating, Wide 60° Apparent Angle of View, Lightweight, Rugged Magnesium Chassis. Review ZEISS 8x40

www.greentoe.com

 

[Swedpat]

It is curious. To me the comparison seems almost inevitable. If one were standing in a good bino store (admittedly hard to find), looking at and through the 2, (3), HDX (HDs going, going, almost gone), SFL and maybe SF, Id be asking what does one get for the price difference and is it worth it.

Weight-wise:
HDX 8x32 21.9oz
HDX 8x42 25.2oz
SFL 8x40 22.6oz

Worth to add to the list is SFL 8x30: 16,2oz.

 

[GrampaTom]

Worth to add to the list is SFL 8x30: 16,2oz.

Ya got me. Confess thats my own prejudice showing through as Im not a fan of the 30 do its size, as distinct from weight. That said my VPs are my worst shakers do to lack of mass. Weight can be taken to an extreme. Acknowledging the limits of on paper specs how about this way then?

Weight-wise:
SFL 8x30 16.2oz
HDX 8x32 21.9oz
HDX 8x42 25.2oz
SFL 8x40 22.6oz

Size-wise (length):
SFL 8x30 4.7"
HDX 8x32 5.2" (HD was 4.9")
HDX 8x42 5.9"
SFL 8x40 5.7"

As an example of the limits of "paper specs" seemed like many went for those 30s do to the lightweight and small size without rationalizing against the person using. Im a happy camper with EL/NL 32s and 42s. With scope in tow the ergos, (to include BOTH size and shape of the 32), are my sweet spot. At 5.7" x 22.8oz for it, (NL 8x32), notice where the SFL 40 falls...

Merging thoughts, how about an SFL 10x40? Think of it - a 10X with EP of 4mm, the size of a modern 32....

YMM(and probably will)V

 

[Peter.home]

Merging thoughts, how about an SFL 10x40? Think of it - a 10X with EP of 4mm, the size of a modern 32....

These are my birding and wildlife watching binoculars, for over a year now. I take them for granted, but 10x40 that are light enough to wear round my neck all day.
And I can look down and close focus on my feet! Quite incredible really.

 

[Hermann]

Ya got me. Confess thats my own prejudice showing through as Im not a fan of the 30 do its size, as distinct from weight. That said my VPs are my worst shakers do to lack of mass. Weight can be taken to an extreme.

Yep, weight matters. And not surprisingly lighter isn't always better. Holger concludes his thoughts on this topic by writing "As a rule of thumb, the average binocular user may profit most from binoculars of roughly 800 g weight" (Merlitz 2023, p. 150), citing Water Besenmatter as his source.

My own "ideal weight" for a binocular is around 700 gr. But things are quite complicated because the shape of a binocular plays IMO an important role as well. I did a number of comparisons between different 10x binoculars recently and will post a thread on this topic when I find the time.

Hermann

 

[henry link]

I not only prefer heavy binoculars, I prefer them to be front heavy as well, just the opposite of what we are told is desirable. My front heavy 8x56 FL is clearly the steadiest 8x binocular in the hand that I own. I experimented with lashing a 200g brass weight between the barrels at the front of my 8x42 NL. Worked better than the forehead rest.

 

[Dennis Mau]

I not only prefer heavy binoculars, I prefer them to be front heavy as well, just the opposite of what we are told is desirable. My front heavy 8x56 FL is clearly the steadiest 8x binocular in the hand that I own. I experimented with lashing a 200g brass weight between the barrels at the front of my 8x42 NL. Worked better than the headrest.

Plus, you don't have to go to the gym!

 

[Richard D]

I find extra weight a double edged sword - it undoubtedly contributes greatly to stability when observing for a short while, but after a period it can cause fatigue... Balance in hand is important too, which I guess is partially determined by the individuals grip and strength.

 

[ReinierB]

My own "ideal weight" for a binocular is around 700 gr.

Mine too. I will stretch it between 600 - 800 gr, but must confess 800 gr is getting heavy after a while when not wearing it on an harness.
The weight of the SFL 8x40 is great. I also like my NL 10x32 for that reason, weighing around 675 gram. A bit heavy for a 32mm, but I have come to the point that that is a good thing for a 10x magnification.

I also like my Habicht 7x42 (black version with green eyecups) for being my night/dark woods glass. I was thinking about a SLC 10x56 and I have tried the NL 10x52, but I have come to the conclusion that 700 gr is better suited for me.

 

[Hermann]

I not only prefer heavy binoculars, I prefer them to be front heavy as well, just the opposite of what we are told is desirable. My front heavy 8x56 FL is clearly the steadiest 8x binocular in the hand that I own.

You raise a an interesting point. May I guess how you hold your 8x56? You've got one hand to the front, gripping one of the barrels. Your second hand is at the back, you use it to focus the binocular. If you are right-handed, your right hand is probably the one at the front, and your left hand (that you use for focusing) at the back. For lefties (like me) it's most likely the other way round.

I've been using the grip I just described for many years, and it's the grip that works best for me. It only works with binoculars that aren't too light and that are long enough for one hand to grip one barrel at the front. And it works better with binoculars where not most of the weight has been shifted towards the eyepieces. I personally always thought Dobler's idea of shifting the weight towards the eyepieces didn't make much sense.

BTW, in my comparison the steadiest 10x binocular was the Canon 10x42 L - without the stabilizer engaged, of course.

I experimented with lashing a 200g brass weight between the barrels at the front of my 8x42 NL. Worked better than the forehead rest.

Great stuff. I'm not surprised at all. I find the forehead rest works best if the binocular is on a tripod as it dampens the physiological tremor of the head. Wasn't it Binastro who once suggested resting your head against a lamp post or something to steady bincoculars? Same principle.

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

I find extra weight a double edged sword - it undoubtedly contributes greatly to stability when observing for a short while, but after a period it can cause fatigue...

Yep. I find a weight of ~700 gr. is a good compromise for me. It's a weight I can carry around my neck without needing a harness all day without getting to fatigued at the end of the day. And I can hold that weight for long periods of time.

Balance in hand is important too, which I guess is partially determined by the individuals grip and strength.

I agree. And you need to make a conscious decision how you hold your binoculars, including which hand you use for focusing. In addition, a lot of personal preferences may come into this, for instance I find I can hold "wider" binoculars, i.e. porros, steadier than roofs of a similar weight.

Hermann

 

[GrampaTom]

re 700/800s etc. maybe this will help:

Weight-wise:
SFL 8x30 - 16.2oz - 459g
HDX 8x32 - 21.9oz - 621g, (HD was - 629.4g)
HDX 8x42 - 25.2oz - 714g
SFL 8x40 - 22.6oz - 641g
SF 8x32 - 21.16oz - 600g
SF 8x42 - 27.5oz - 779.6g
NL 8x32 - 22.8oz - 646g
NL 8x42 - 29.63oz - 840g

Size-wise (length):
SFL 8x30 - 4.7”- 11.9cm
HDX 8x32 - 5.2” - 13.2cm, (HD was 4.9” - 12.45cm))
HDX 8x42 - 5.9” - 15cm
SFL 8x40 - 5.7” - 14.5cm
SF 832 - 5.98” - 14.2cm
SF 8x42 - 6.8” - 17.3cm
NL 8x32 - 5.7” - 14.5cm
NL 8x42 - 6.22” - 15.8cm