Shrikes of the World (3 Viewers)

[Farnboro John]

BTO has just endorsed "Shrikes of the World" as its Book of the Year. Does this mean the book supplies the definitive answers to shrike taxonomy?

I'm guessing not tbh, which makes me wonder why a science-based organisation that must be aware of the problems with shrike taxonomy would stick its neck out so far.

John

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I'm guessing not tbh, which makes me wonder why a science-based organisation that must be aware of the problems with shrike taxonomy would stick its neck out so far.

Not sure that taxonomy would be a key scoring criteria. Presumably just judges opinion.

To be devils advocate, I am not really sure that taxonomy is a hard science in any case. When I raised a thread on how species are defined, the informed opinion was that it is a judgement based on the morphology, vocals, hybridization zones, DNA etc, with no hard rules on percentage of genetic divergence. Rather a man made construct and an art to making an opinion, and not a hard facts science.

 

[Farnboro John]

Not sure that taxonomy would be a key scoring criteria. Presumably just judges opinion.

To be devils advocate, I am not really sure that taxonomy is a hard science in any case. When I raised a thread on how species are defined, the informed opinion was that it is a judgement based on the morphology, vocals, hybridization zones, DNA etc, with no hard rules on percentage of genetic divergence. Rather a man made construct and an art to making an opinion, and not a hard facts science.

Oh yes, I've always known that. "One size doesn't fit all" pretty much sums it up, which is why arguing in specific cases by analogue with others doesn't really persuade.

I haven't read the book, but it does strike me that when whole lumps of a taxonomic group are in doubt as to correct associations and consequent names among the entire taxonomic community, it's not the best time (or practice) to bring out a major book on them - and that really ought to affect one's judgement on the value of the book however nice the pictures are. A good time to write that first novel instead perhaps.

John

 

[Bubbs]

Shrikes of the World

Winner of Best Bird Book of the Year 2023 Shrikes occupy a strange place in the minds and hearts of ornithologists; at once being attractive passerines, but with a raptorial streak that led to many of us being brought up to know them as butcherbirds for their habit of impaling food items on...

www.bto.org

 

[Xenospiza]

In Great Grey Shrike, the number of species level taxa can be put somewhere between one and six (by heart, so likely wrong: Great Grey, Socotran, North African, Desert, Steppe, Asian) based on your preferences.
It does not make sense to wait until "all details are clear", because they likely never will be.
As the book deals with the latest genetic findings, I assume they will mention the possible direction of shrike taxonomy.

 

[Farnboro John]

In Great Grey Shrike, the number of species level taxa can be put somewhere between one and six (by heart, so likely wrong: Great Grey, Socotran, North African, Desert, Steppe, Asian) based on your preferences.
It does not make sense to wait until "all details are clear", because they likely never will be.
As the book deals with the latest genetic findings, I assume they will mention the possible direction of shrike taxonomy.

...and the shrike previously known as Isabelline (or even earlier versions)?

John

 

[Xenospiza]

...and the shrike previously known as Isabelline (or even earlier versions)?

John

Yes, I thought about mentioning that can of worms but decided against it!

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Yes, I thought about mentioning that can of worms but decided against it!

I haven’t read the book either, but as you suggest for GGS, as long as the book covers the various ‘forms’ of Isabelline Shrike, then hopefully it has value, regardless of how it labels them. If it covers differences of opinion by taxonomists (e.g ‘treated as a valid species by some authorities’) then that would be even better.