Snipe Underwing - D&G, Scotland (2 Viewers)

[Jane Turner]

I'll put these here for later

Pintail!!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__Dq5_ABpF...ail+Snipe_Golden+Triangle_021208_IMG_2595.jpg

Common (left v Pintail)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__Dq5_ABpF...il+Snipes_Golden+Triangle_031208_IMG_2718.jpg

Quite a structural differnce

and a Swinhoes

http://suomenlinna-birds.com/IMAGES/SwinhoeSnipe02-Lehikoinen.jpg

and Wilson's

http://www.birds-of-north-america.net/images/wilson-s-snipe-6.jpg

Ok ok I'm interested now...but still way too tired to have a closer look!

Here compared to Swinhoes

 

[Phil Andrews]

I'm too busy with real work... and way too brain fried.... but I'll have a look in the next few days.

Anyone know what Swinhoe's Snipe looks like from below?

"Underwing mostly dark; lacks white trailing edge to secondaries"

 

[rockfowl]

Swinhoe's and Pin-tailed are impossible to separate in the field is the general consensus, unless you can really determine the tail and outer-tail configuration I think, hence the expression 'Swintail' Snipe or of course they call or 'sing'.

I guess you'd had a beer last night Frank, hence 'rusty', anything to add?

 

[FXM]

Because the underwing lacks contrast the white trailing edge doesn't stand out but on close inspection you could argue there is actually quite a decent one present... I think! Quite a lot of variation in C. Snipe but I'm struggling here.

 

[FXM]

No alchohol last night. True Tophill story Mark. No one seemed interested last night. Point I was making was that there can be a great deal of variation in C.Snipe. Not aimed at you this Mark but nobody ever answered Dimm's question all those years ago when he asked the tour leaders how they were separating Swin's/Pintail. I used to think we could do it in Hong Kong but now I'm confused.

 

[timwootton]

Sorry - can't add to the current discussion, but the sad demise of 'Rusty' upthread prompted me to relocate this. Here are two of five which regularly took to my new pond this summer - the difference in real life was even more marked than shows here.

 

[rockfowl]

I don't think you can Frank, bar the open tail. I've seen one or two 'heavy bombers', that have been called by friends of ours, that I thought yeh, very woodcock (Swinhoe's) like, I'll buy that!
But I also see them every spring independantly and think, ****** they're bloody tough!

 

[FXM]

Yeah my thoughts also mark. In HK we were very close, could hear the calls and could see plenty of detail. Could make good comparisons so had a pretty good chance. Happy Island bods have very often been a different kettle of fish.

Thanks for the shots Tim.

The C. Snipe is the Hull Valley Wildlife Group Logo and is a species close to my heart. I wrote a piece in one of the reports quite a few years back detailing the demise of the species as a breeding bird around Watton Nature Reserve/Tophill due to the lowering of the water table from 'improved' drainage. Some of my greatest birding moments revolve around the snipe. Sorry for the detail.

 

[HarryJ]

Hi,

I feel that the secondaries have white tips. Or is this only light shining through?

A picture of the underwing of the Swinhoes Snipe seen in Finland in 2008 can be found at
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=22096&language=uk.
Sound recordings of the same bird are at
http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/aania/idanihmeita.shtml

The earlier mentioned page
[unlink]http://suomenlinna-birds.com/[/unlink] contains unauthorized copies of bird recordings and sounds.

Regards
Harry J

 

[Jane Turner]

On reflection I think its within normal variation for common Snipe....

 

[timwootton]

Just in the interest of trying to learn a bit more - what would a dowitcher look like in this context, I wonder?

 

[Jane Turner]

Like this

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VqFCjqe45Bk/TX5wp0hf4iI/AAAAAAAAAPc/cjmu7delxDY/sbdoflight.jpg

 

[username]

Sorry - can't add to the current discussion, but the sad demise of 'Rusty' upthread prompted me to relocate this. Here are two of five which regularly took to my new pond this summer - the difference in real life was even more marked than shows here.

Have you considered any of your 'washed out' snipe to be Delicata Tim...?

What is fascinating about all this snipe ID is the amazing amount of variation shown within individuals...[good job the outer tail feathers in Gallinago don't vary as much as their underwing pattern does]...or do they?...:eek!:

I'm kidding...[sort of]...

 

[Brett Richards]

Last week I was at the new RSPB reserve, Crook of Baldoon, near Wigtown. As the tide came in a lot of Snipe were getting flushed along with a single Jack Snipe. I started photographing some of them as they went overhead, and then when reviewing them found the Snipe which Ive attached.

To me it is not a typical Common Snipe underwing, though perhaps not bold enough for other species?

Therefore my question is: Is it within the variations for Common Snipe or potentially a different (rarer) species?

Thanks,
Gavin

Looks pretty similar to the bird here http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...7424B45EDB2951AE1D449B27&first=61&FORM=IDFRIR (I'm assuming that bird has been correctly identified).

Brett

 

[FXM]

Nice one Brett. Very similar.

 

[GavCha]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and discussion.

It will go down as an interesting, probable Common Snipe and an example of potential variation. Obviously trying to ID from a photo is often impossible, but in this case without taking the photo it would have gone over our heads as a definite Common Snipe (which is probable was).

No different call was heard, though Im rubbish at remembering calls even if there had been one.

I wonder how many Wilson's, Pintail etc. have been in the country undetected? Anyone know how many have been recorded in UK? I only know of the Scilly's Wilson Snipe.