Some birds from Malaysian Borneo (1 Viewer)

[MacNara]

Thank you very much indeed, Andy. And also JWN Andrewes and KGS, and Julien.

I managed to identify 60 species myself, but didn't expect to be able to get so much of the rest even with your expert help. It's frustrating trying to get pictures of birds in rainforest, because without much experience it's difficult to get camera settings right when a bird appears before it goes again. And if you get them right for one place or thing, then something else pops out from a different place for which the settings are not right. And of course some birds when you see them are not in a location where anyone could get a good shot (e.g. I have a series of shots of a Velvet-fronted Nuthatch climbing a dark trunk against a white sky.

(Interestingly, about half the people in the various groups we interacted with were doing all their photography on an iPhone.)

This was a first trip to Borneo (or Malaysia) and I would definitely go again. We had a super time, and the guides were really great. Of course, we were mainly there to see the orang utan and other primates, and we saw several orang utan, and everything we hoped for except Slow Loris and civets (though I got silhouette shots of a Binturong). We didn't expect the Clouded Leopard, so we weren't disappointed. We saw a large herd of Pygmy Elephants bathing and playing around by the river for about twenty minutes.

In the photos I posted here, I was particularly delighted about the Bat Hawk. We were hoping for Bat Hawk at Gomantong, but there were just Wallace's Hawk-eagle and Crested Serpent Eagle. This photo was over the river at Sukau, and I hadn't considered Bat Hawk as a possible ID.

I would love it if the poor shot was Lesser Fish Eagle, because then I would have the set (Brahminy, White-bellied, Grey-headed, Lesser). I have other shots of this bird, but the one I posted was the best one. The bird was just gliding slowly along a few metres above the river at Danum Valley at dusk, so this was the best I could do from 100m or so away. Is there anything I could look for in my other photos to decide between Grey-headed and Lesser? I attach one more shot which shows the back (kind of).

I am assuming that the crows we saw (not posted here) were all Slender-billed Crows, since this seems to be the default. If this is wrong, please let me know.

As for the swifts I posted here, they were in the centre of Kota Kinabalu at lunchtime, so I hadn't considered that they might be Edible-nest Swiftlets which I thought would be in the hills where there are caves. Maybe some people breed them commercially in the city or nearby?

We had some luck with birds and saw the Bristlehead and Pied Falconet, and I have a photo of the rear end of Storm's Stork flying away. And thanks to all your help here, I can add another twenty or so to my list.

The colours are difficult to judge from my photo, I agree, but having looked in the books I tend to go with female Asian Fairy Bluebird rather than Asian Glossy Starling. But what do I know? I attach another shot of that bird which shows the bill shape more clearly.

Thank you all again very much for your help, especially Andy.

 

[andyb39]

The main difference between Grey-headed and Lesser Fish Eagles is the tail pattern. Grey-headed has a white upper tail (and undertail) with a clearly-defined black terminal band, whereas Lesser has a darkish upper tail with a poorly-defined terminal band. I'm not seeing a white upper tail on the second shot, and the terminal band is not well-defined, assuming this is an adult bird (which it appears to be in the first shot), so I think Lesser is more likely. My copy of Phillipp's states that Lesser is found at Danum but doesn't mention Grey-headed. They're both found on the Kinabatangan.

The crows you saw would have been Slender-billed.

I don't know much about swiftlets in Kota Kinabalu but the situation is always clouded by the establishment of "swiftlet hotels" throughout the region.

That bird still doesn't look like a Fairy Bluebird to me with that thinnish hooked bill. I'm just wondering if it might be a Philentoma.

 

[MacNara]

That bird still doesn't look like a Fairy Bluebird to me with that thinnish hooked bill. I'm just wondering if it might be a Philentoma.

That looks really good to me. My bird looks just like this female Maroon-Breasted Philentoma from Thailand.

And thanks for all the trouble you've taken about my photos. You really are a hero. This was our first trip to Borneo, and I hope we can go again. You learn so much from a first trip; even from trying to identify impossible stuff, you learn about the possibilities of the area.

The Grey-headed Fish Eagle I posted, although it's sitting on a branch, shows a clear black tail end with strong white above. As you say, this isn't visible at al on the evening shots at Danum, so I'll maybe go for Lesser here. Also it didn't seem as 'chunky' or large as I would expect Grey-headed to be (I think Lesser is one size down so to speak). When I first saw it (from 100m), I thought it might be a large pigeon.

 

[johnallcock]

That bird still doesn't look like a Fairy Bluebird to me with that thinnish hooked bill. I'm just wondering if it might be a Philentoma.

It looks to me like there may be white tips to the tail feathers. Could it be a cuckooshrike?

The last bird can only be a minivet - maybe Scarlet? It's a very odd angle but the bird has bright red underparts and rump.

I would expect to see the wing pattern on a minivet, and the size/structure seem wrong. Also the dark areas look bluish rather than black. I was wondering about the possibility of a male orange-bellied flowerpecker, perhaps with the lighting making it look redder than usual.

 

[andyb39]

It looks to me like there may be white tips to the tail feathers. Could it be a cuckooshrike?

I did notice that, and the other white blotches on the undertail, but I wasn't sure if they're real or not. If it is a cuckooshrike, I think the only one it could be is a male Lesser (I'm pretty sure it's not Sunda and it's definitely not Bar-bellied). However, the bird is too bluish, the wings don't seem to contrast enough with the upperparts and I'd expect the vent to be paler than it seems to be, as in these images:

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2300&Bird_Image_ID=58379

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=2300&Bird_Image_ID=58378

Also, the first image does seem to show a bright red iris.

I would expect to see the wing pattern on a minivet, and the size/structure seem wrong. Also the dark areas look bluish rather than black. I was wondering about the possibility of a male orange-bellied flowerpecker, perhaps with the lighting making it look redder than usual.

Your thoughts about it not being a minivet all went through my head. Looking at the image again, you must be right - we should be able to see part of the wing pattern despite the twig partly obscuring the bird. It's definitely a smaller, more compact-looking bird. Your idea of OBF would explain a lot, like the position of the rump - rather high up the back - but it has orange-yellow underparts and back, not blinding red. Could the lighting change the colour that drastically?

 

[MacNara]

Your thoughts about it not being a minivet all went through my head. Looking at the image again, you must be right - we should be able to see part of the wing pattern despite the twig partly obscuring the bird. It's definitely a smaller, more compact-looking bird. Your idea of OBF would explain a lot, like the position of the rump - rather high up the back - but it has orange-yellow underparts and back, not blinding red. Could the lighting change the colour that drastically?

This picture was taken early in the morning dawn light at Danum Valley. Five minutes earlier, I got lovely pictures of male Yellow-rumped FP but with pop-up flash. This bird looks much redder, but I expect it's an effect of light (either pop-up flash or Photoshop or both; I don't fully remember). Because it was so much redder, I thought it might have been something else. I included it here just for completeness. Thank you for spending so much time on it.

We saw Yellow-rumped male and female there, and Yellow-vented juv (which I didn't post because the yellow vent is clear). There was also the bird that Andy identified as Yellow-breasted female earlier in this thread (although we didn't see any males); I thought it might just be Yellow-rumped (it has a red eye, and this was not flash, but I'm still not sure about Yellow-breasted). It's the photo on post #9 in this thread along with this red-breasted bird.

I used Birds of South-east Asia Robson (which I got for a trip a few years ago to Vietnam/Laos) and the small book 'A Naturalist's Guide to the Birds of Borneo). The former doesn't include Borneo, but I thought that in combination with the smaller guide I would be able to get away without buying the huge Birds of Borneo.

On the other bird, I really go for the female Philentoma, assuming that the internet image I linked to in post #23 is actually this. Although the photo isn't great, it fits with what I remember. The bird was definitely blue-ish and not the colour the books show for Asian Glossy Starling.

 

[Bryon Wright]

Borneo id

Hi all,
Really challenging id. in the Borneo Rainforest. Relative to the blurry pics, think both pigeons are thick-billed. Little green has really narrow, primrose wing edgings and a delicate, dove like beak. The red part of the beak on thick-billed is often very confined. Pink-necked is always widespread so it was a good call.The tail tip looks right for thick-billed as well. Notice the erpornis/yuhina but is #1 of posting 6 the Bornean, plain babbler? Posting 6, #4 looks like the bulky, bulbul sized malacopteron, rufous crowned babbler.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Agree with John that 2nd bird in post 21 looks like a cuckooshrike. I'd also be wary about identifying Fish Eagles on tail pattern from unclear pics, as Gey-headed's tail pattern isn't always that striking.

 

[MacNara]

...is #1 of posting 6 the Bornean, plain babbler? Posting 6, #4 looks like the bulky, bulbul sized malacopteron, rufous crowned babbler.

Thanks for replying.

In post six, photos #1 and #2 are of the same individual bird among the lodges at Danum Valley, and photos #3 and #4 are of the same individual bird on the bridge/walkway at Danum Valley.

 

[MacNara]

Agree with John that 2nd bird in post 21 looks like a cuckooshrike.

So, which Cuckooshrike would it be? Sunda and Lesser are in the small Birds of Borneo I have. The bill in the photos looked finer than the bill of Cuckooshrikes shown in Robson, but I obviously the photo isn't perfect.

I'd also be wary about identifying Fish Eagles on tail pattern from unclear pics, as Gey-headed's tail pattern isn't always that striking.

Darn, I'd already sent the photos off to National Geographic!

 

[andyb39]

Hi again,

A number of points here.

1. The 1st green pigeon. I did consider Thick-billed, and the bill is definitely heavy, but I was put off by the lack of the blue-green border to the eye shown by females and the lack of red on the base of the bill. On the other hand, the flank/vent markings (white bands on green background) and tail (green with black edges) fit Thick-billed better, so I think Byron is right.

2. The 2nd green pigeon. I'm not convinced it's not Pink-necked - the bill is bluish with a yellow base, which fits. I was really going by the bright red feet, but I concede this feature isn't limited to Pink-necked. To be honest, I can't really see enough of this bird to come to a definite conclusion. The tail looks all dark on my monitor, so I don't know how that helps.

3. Re the 1st and 4th photos of the 6th post (5th set), if these are the images Byron was referring to. I don't know which babbler you're thinking of for the 1st image, Byron, but it would be odd for a babbler to perch on a wire fence - it looks like a bulbul to me, but it's hard to say any more than that. The 4th photo I'm sure is Buff-vented Bulbul - it shows the typical head pattern of streaked, warm brown crown with a dark border and horizontal dark stripe behind the eye, which is silvery. Rufous-crowned Babbler has a two-tone crown (rufous in front, black behind) and lacks the dark stripe behind the eye - it doesn't have a silvery eye either. Also, I can't imagine one perching on a fence (?).

4. Re the two Fish eagles. I'm pretty happy that the 1st one is Grey-headed, but I only said I thought the second one was more likely to be Lesser, and I don't think you should make a definitive claim on the basis of these shots! I also had a look at the checklist for Danum Valley, and Grey-headed is on it, so we can't rule it out on location.

5. Re the bluish bird, if it is a Cuckooshrike (I'm not 100% convinced) then I think it would have to be male Lesser. The photos of Sunda that I've been looking at all show a rather stout-billed bird, and the tail generally seems to be all-black. The tail pattern of the bird in the shots looks better for Lesser with those white tips. However, the iris looks red, the bird doesn't seem to have contrasting black wings and the vent doesn't look pale enough. Also, a cuckooshrike is a pretty easy bird to identify in the field, so I'm puzzled as to why MacNara didn't pin it down there and then if that's what it was, and why he says it looked bluish.

Right you are about ID being a real challenge in Borneo - not just there but in SE Asia generally. It's hard to get more than a half-second glimpse of a bird, let alone photograph it. I think you do need a good field guide like Phillipps in Borneo.

 

[MacNara]

Hi Andy and all the others who have replied in this thread and my other threads on squirrels, insects and other things.

I'm really grateful for your comments and the reasoning you gave for them. This was my first visit to Malaysia, and I thought probably a one-off, but we enjoyed it so much (not just the animals, but also Kota Kinabalu, which may not be a particularly beautiful town, but has very nice people and some good food) that we are thinking of going again. Peninsular Malaysia also sounds like it has different habitats that might be interesting.

Although this forum may be called Bird Identification Q&A, I think the point is not necessarily always to arrive at a definitive ID, but to learn something about the place you visited. If we are lucky enough to go again, thanks to your comments on the pictures I put up, I will have a better idea of which birds and animals are likely to be in the places I go to, what to look for, and will generally enjoy my trip more.

A few of the pictures I put up (especially the 'minivet/flowerpecker') I probably shouldn't have put up because even before I posted them I thought they were not definitively identifiable, and I apologise.

Anyway, once again, thanks very much. I'm comfortable with putting a ? next to some IDs on my index, and maybe next time I go I'll be able to remove the ? on a few of these.

 

[MacNara]

3. Re the 1st and 4th photos of the 6th post (5th set), if these are the images Byron was referring to. I don't know which babbler you're thinking of for the 1st image, Byron, but it would be odd for a babbler to perch on a wire fence - it looks like a bulbul to me, but it's hard to say any more than that. The 4th photo I'm sure is Buff-vented Bulbul - it shows the typical head pattern of streaked, warm brown crown with a dark border and horizontal dark stripe behind the eye, which is silvery. Rufous-crowned Babbler has a two-tone crown (rufous in front, black behind) and lacks the dark stripe behind the eye - it doesn't have a silvery eye either. Also, I can't imagine one perching on a fence (?).

To repeat: photos 1 and 2 in post #6 are the same individual bird (not the same bird as 3 and 4).

And photos 3 and 4 are the same individual bird (not the same bird as 1 and 2)

Photos 1 to 4 show only two individual birds. Separating 1 and 4 as if they had no connection with 2 and 3 is wrong. I posted two pictures of each to give two different lighting conditions in the case of 1 and 2, and flight and standing in the case of 3 and 4.

 

[andyb39]

To repeat: photos 1 and 2 in post #6 are the same individual bird (not the same bird as 3 and 4).

And photos 3 and 4 are the same individual bird (not the same bird as 1 and 2)

Photos 1 to 4 show only two individual birds. Separating 1 and 4 as if they had no connection with 2 and 3 is wrong. I posted two pictures of each to give two different lighting conditions in the case of 1 and 2, and flight and standing in the case of 3 and 4.

Sorry if I gave that impression. I knew that 3 was the same bird as 4 (it's just that 4 is a much better image for ID), although I'd forgotten 1 and 2 were the same.

Looking again at image 2, I'm going for Spectacled Bulbul again. I think there's a faint yellow orbital ring and I've just noticed the twin yellow patches both above and at the base of the bill - a good match for this subadult bird:

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=1724&Bird_Image_ID=86795

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Looking again at image 2, I'm going for Spectacled Bulbul again.

looks good to me Andy (unless the image is deceiving us)

 

[MacNara]

looks good to me Andy (unless the image is deceiving us)

These pictures were taken in the early morning (I forgot to change my camera time, but it should be 6:10am). I took two photos with no flash at ISO 1000. But these looked black on my screen, so I used the pop-up flash on the camera, but without changing the ISO for the two photos I originally posted. Here are the two flashless photos, if it helps. But I think photo 4 is a good representation of this bird (I think the image isn't deceiving you).

(Off to bed now, I'll check back tomorrow, and thank you yet again for taking so much trouble.)

 

[Andy Adcock]

Both Pigeons are Pink-necked, the diagnostic tail pattern is clear in the first image and it's far and away the commonest Green Pigeon.


Andy