Strange Pintail (1 Viewer)

[Joern Lehmhus]

what do you think? somehow this looks slightly atypical, as if a (Mallard x Pintail) x Pintail

Look at head colour, breast colour and shape of the long tail feathers....

http://web.onetel.com/~derek_hale/Gallery/Ducks/Pintail2RydeCL211200.jpg

Comments please...Thanks!

Joern

 

[luke]

intersesting probably is (mallard x pintail) x pintail there seems to be a hint of green in the head and it has a very short neck
look at blue on the rump but definatly more pintail than anything else
but i'm no experts be interesting to see what is said

cheers
luke

 

[Tim100]

what do you think? somehow this looks slightly atypical, as if a (Mallard x Pintail) x Pintail

Look at head colour, breast colour and shape of the long tail feathers....

http://web.onetel.com/~derek_hale/Gallery/Ducks/Pintail2RydeCL211200.jpg

Comments please...Thanks!

Joern

It looks like you say predominantly pintail with a little mallard.

Green head and brown chest of mallard and body feathers and tail of pintail.

Even the way the white on neck has a triangular pattern is very pintail.

I would be surprised for someone to dispute this.

 

[IanF]

It looks Northern Pintail to me and the strange colours due to CA from the camera lens rather than any Mallard involved - but I'm a long way from bieng expert!

 

[Nutcracker]

I've seen a first generation Mallard x Pintail that looked like this, though it could easily be a backcross with a Pintail

 

[Dimitris]

Just a thought maybe it has American(Teal???) Wigeon blood instead of Mallard blood.Feathers on back seem right 4 this as is the pattern on the head.But that's only a thought...

Otherwise I'm fine with Mallard.

 

[roger hill]

Northern Pintail for me,also.
Structurally as well as right feather colour and shape all look good.
As IanF suggests there does look to be some chromatic abberation. Most obvious with the colbolt blue on the outertail coverts.
The brownish wash on the breastplate could also be due to the bird not quite being in full breeding plumage.
I hope this helps.

Regards Roger.

 

[Nutcracker]

A Pintail's elongated uppertail coverts (the 'pin tail') are straight - curvature like this is a clear indicator of Mallard blood (the same feathers are curled in Mallard)

 

[roger hill]

Hi nutcracker
Whats to say that these feathers arent being blown by the wind or still growing, or a permutation of both. Or damaged in some way?
furthermore there are a lot of pale bluish/green blotches throughout the pic both in the water and on the bird. this is what i am offering up as a possible explanation for the greenish wash to the head
What we are trying to do is made a judgment on a single moment in time. Maybe if Joern could get back to us and state whether the green wash to the head and tail shape was a constant thing. Or just noted on the pic.
If they are present all of the time then i am more than happy with your hybrid theory.

Regards Roger.

 

[Nutcracker]

Hi Roger,

Those feathers are fairly stiff, they don't bend that easily. A gale strong enough to bend them that much, the water wouldn't look like that!

Also (post #5) I've seen a known Pintail x Mallard hybrid that looked almost exactly like this.

 

[roger hill]

Hi nutcracker
Would you be so good as to tell me where you read that only a gale is capable of bending a pintails tail? None of the books i have make mention.
Who is to say that you dont get these small movements when the wind blows.But because they are momentary they are dismissed by the eye.
Anyone,who has observed a flock of birds,will tell you that not all birds tails vibrate/bend when the wind blows.(one or two might)it can be down to angle.
A small gust can produce movement in feathers without creating a tidalwave.
I said that the bird looked good to me as a Pintail and that the anomolies could be down to chromatic abberation. I also went on to say that if Joern would be so good as to get back to us and say whether these features were present all the time,then i was more than happy with an hybrid.
I must admit that i didnt read your (post#5) with reference to a crossback.
My original post was meant to be a word of caution to Joern so that he didnt just pick up and run with the hybrid theory.because it seems to be an easy way of explaining away something that doesnt fall into a clearcut ID.
I hope that this post clears up any misunderstanding,you have,with my theory on this bird.

Regards Roger.

 

[Nutcracker]

Hi Roger,

From watching Pintails on windy days!

 

[Edward woodwood]

Pintail x Mallard

has quite a lot of a Mallard's structure with plumage of a pintail

tail feathers are curved and perhaps a little on the short side too

head shape odd and neck appears quite short for a pure pintail and head coloration has Mallard aspects too etc

Tim

 

[roger hill]

I have to say that having looked at this pic quite alot lately to pick out features that supported my stance on this bird.I suddenly went dry mouthed when i noticed that the neck wasnt just pulled-in but actually short,and that the head wasnt that clever for pintail either.
So i started to read all the previous posts so i could work out some kind of climb down and not come accross as...well you know.
Well Tim beat me to it.
I do have to contest the tail(perhaps on the short side too).If you go to www.birdphotography.com/species/nopi.html there is a male Pintail in flight that has an even shorter tail
If something good has come of this it has to be that i now know and believe pintails tails dont bend on windy days. thanks nutcracker.
Regards Roger.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Hey Roger

we ALL get stuff wrong from timem to time
EVERYONE here has at one time or other messed up something, often a bird much easier than a hybrid duck

it's all good experience

Tim

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi all, thanks for the comments. There is no doubt that this bird has Mallard and Pintail genes.

However, the feathers on the back of this bird are much closer to pintail than in any Mallard x Pintail hybrid i have seen previously. Normally this hybrid has a much more uniform Back (see the links of more typical birds of that hybrid combination below),

Therefore my Idea that the link in my first mail may show a backcross to Pintail


http://www.birding.ch/hybridsandstuff/190201.html

http://www.bobsteelephoto.com/Species/mall_nopi.html

http://www.terra.es/personal7/jidies/platyacuta.htm

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/ducks.html

 

[edenwatcher]

Interesting. We had a mallard x pintail cross a couple of winters ago which looked more like the birds shown in Joern's last 3 links. These might be termed more mallard-like.
This bird definitely seems more pintail-like and so could be a backcross.


Rob

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Another idea might be that it depends which partner is the drake and which one the hen?
Just speculating; I don´t know if that can possibly have some influence?