The new 8x30 CLl's (1 Viewer)

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After all is said and done, etc., it's the "I like this one better" opinion that really counts.:t:

"After all is said and done, etc., it's the "I like this one better" opinion that really counts."

Me too. But I hope Henry doesn't see this.

 

[CliveP]

Sunny morning

So the painting is canceled for today an I'm off out with my motorbike, camera and only binos left, so I find I have to like them...

but there's always something better or yet to come. I'm sure of it? There just must be!

 

[brocknroller]

So the painting is canceled for today an I'm off out with my motorbike, camera and only binos left, so I find I have to like them...

but there's always something better or yet to come. I'm sure of it? There just must be!

About two years ago, I posted a thread titled "Incremental Change$ for Diminishing Return$," which I got a lot of mileage out of, and now I"m kickin' it once again!

At the time, Henry mentioned innovations other than coatings such as more complex EPs, high quality glass, ED glass, and now we have field flatteners on the SV EL (which the HG and SE had in 1998, hardly "innovative") that drove up the costs of high end roofs.

But even the hard-nosed reviewer Holger Merlitz seems to be questioning if those Incremental Change$ with added costs on top of what already is a very dear price are really worth it. See the last paragraph before the Disclaimer:

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/meopta8x32.html

So sure, there will be something "better" to come along (and with that even more "extreme(adura)" marketing, perhaps bins with GPS, Bluetooth, and the latest proprietary 97-layer coatings, but will those incremental changes be worth the price jump compared to the uberpriced bins that you already own?

Except for the deep pocketed who must always have the "latest and greatest" for its own sake, that's going to be the main question on buyer's minds.

Already we've seen some pre-SV EL owners say that they compared their ELs with the new SV ELs and felt that the big price hike wasn't worth the ED glass and that last 10-15% better edge performance. One member recently questioned how great that edge improvement was since the image gets compressed at the edges.

However, for now, the majority of SV EL owners seem to be happy with their purchases (except those who saw the "rolling ball"). But will they keep them for 10 or 20 years or drop them like a hot potato when "next year's model" comes along? Dennis is the "canary in the cage" for this trend. If something better comes along, he'll be one of the first to sell his SV EL and buy it. And as they used to say on Seinfeld -- "not that there's anything wrong with that". -)

But at some point even those who like to follow trends might come to the point where they reach in their wallet for their plastic and wonder if they really want to get charged almost $3K for a pair of binoculars that is only incrementally better than the $2K+ bins they already have.

Someday, there will be a "line drawn in the sand" where buyers will say "enough is enough". That price point might vary a bit from buyer to buyer, but eventually there will be a clear "line of demarcation" where the optics enthusiasts/hobbyist will part company with the "price is no object" high wage earners and professionals.

And they will begin to think, I'd rather buy a scope for that much or used car for my son/daughter or buy my wife a $3,000 Louis Vuitton designer bag (just seeing if your paying attention -.

Most of us have more than one hobby, and unless the other hobby is something like model car building or knitting (rumor has it that Crazy Lil' knits a mean scarf! , the prices involved in your other hobby(ies) are also going to climb (unless they haven't been 'offshored' yet). So you will either have to drop one or more of them to keep up with alpha roof prices or do what Frankie Valli has recommended for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdtIVZ3e_8Y&feature=related

Brock

 

[lilcrazy2]

Most of us have more than one hobby, and unless the other hobby is something like model car building or knitting (rumor has it that Crazy Lil' knits a mean scarf!
Brock

Brock

What do you suppose it is about me that seems to intimidate you so much that you seem to feel the need to include me in many of your posts?

The last scarf I remember knitting is the one your boyfiriend asked me to knit for you. So keep warm and don't choke on it

Tom

 

[CliveP]

Hope to hear more on the CL soon or new 32el

Meanwhile if any of the big manufacturers would like to offer me several millions in research funding I'd be happy have a look at it.

I was thinking some kind of nano bot lense morphing thingy perhaps. Ideas are usually nicked from nature so maybe there will come some kind of eagle eye function borrowing.

I'm currently reading through Physics of the Future and I think they have overlooked a binocular section but maybe I will get some other ideas.

Personally I find it easy to be satisfied with a basic good scope but binoculars seem to present more difficulty in quelling the restlessness? however I am happy with mine and do think I will add to them sometime but never shall we part. This one is for life so the money was well spent.

Imagine a high powered tripod mounted camera system (or several located strategically) wireless linked to virtual reality type specs. The camera tracks where the spec wearer - who may freely roam around - looks and replays the real time video (3d with zoom fuction) to the user etc and so on.

Could be expensive. Maybe something that could be set up on a reserve and users could pay to hire the specs etc and so on.

But then, do we really need it. Ummm it might be nice.

 

[Sancho]

I was thinking some kind of nano bot lense morphing thingy perhaps.....

Imagine a high powered tripod mounted camera system (or several located strategically) wireless linked to virtual reality type specs. The camera tracks where the spec wearer - who may freely roam around - looks and replays the real time video (3d with zoom fuction) to the user etc and so on.

But then, do we really need it. Ummm it might be nice.

Yeah, it might be nice Clive, but then it would be like the switch from vinyl to all this new-fangled Cassette-Tape stuff, or CD´s, or "downloading music" (whatever that means). We miss the gentle crackle and smooth hiss of the needle arm being shifted onto the first track of the vinyl, and the joy in discovering a "B-side" that is really pretty good (younger members, ignore this, it´s too complicated to explain).
So if they try to sell us nano-bot Six-Million Dollar Man eyeballs (younger members, don´t even ask), we´ll miss the clunk of oddly-hanging Nikon Binos on our chest, or the comforting curl of our paws around the satisfying barrels of our SV´s, and the switch from the crappy, blurry middle-aged deteriorating eyes we´re saddled with, to the eye-popping, contrasty, edge-sharp (if somewhat rolly-bally) view of our binoculars. And their weight in our hands.
Mind you, I always swore I didn´t need a Carbon-Fibre frame racing bike, as it was one incremental step too far. But now I´ve got one, and it´s like being Wily E. Coyote with an Acme Rocket strapped to his butt end...
BTW, for forgotten "B-sides" that were really pretty good, try "We are so fragile", B-Side of "Are Friends Electric?" by Tubeway Army (younger members, don´t even ask). Great song, and relevant to the deviation from this thread: "We are so fragile, advertising lies that are whiter than yours/We are so fragile, they could give us a war just to keep us amused..."
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aseVBJ3zxc

 

[NDhunter]

Sancho:

You and your wild avatar, you have me thinking you are it, with this post.

I am not sure how it relates to the Swaro. CL.

Let us know more?

Jerry

 

[brocknroller]

Yeah, it might be nice Clive, but then it would be like the switch from vinyl to all this new-fangled Cassette-Tape stuff, or CD´s, or "downloading music" (whatever that means). We miss the gentle crackle and smooth hiss of the needle arm being shifted onto the first track of the vinyl, and the joy in discovering a "B-side" that is really pretty good (younger members, ignore this, it´s too complicated to explain).
So if they try to sell us nano-bot Six-Million Dollar Man eyeballs (younger members, don´t even ask), we´ll miss the clunk of oddly-hanging Nikon Binos on our chest, or the comforting curl of our paws around the satisfying barrels of our SV´s, and the switch from the crappy, blurry middle-aged deteriorating eyes we´re saddled with, to the eye-popping, contrasty, edge-sharp (if somewhat rolly-bally) view of our binoculars. And their weight in our hands.
Mind you, I always swore I didn´t need a Carbon-Fibre frame racing bike, as it was one incremental step too far. But now I´ve got one, and it´s like being Wily E. Coyote with an Acme Rocket strapped to his butt end...
BTW, for forgotten "B-sides" that were really pretty good, try "We are so fragile", B-Side of "Are Friends Electric?" by Tubeway Army (younger members, don´t even ask). Great song, and relevant to the deviation from this thread: "We are so fragile, advertising lies that are whiter than yours/We are so fragile, they could give us a war just to keep us amused..."
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aseVBJ3zxc

My favorite Beatles B-side was "Act Naturally," sung by none-other-than my alter ego.

Here's the "Starr" of the video singing a duet with Buck Owens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHeRq6DdxHE

To answer Jerry's question about what B-sides have to do with the the CL, I guess you could consider the CL as the B-side to the SV EL.

B(side)Rock

 

[NDhunter]

Brock:

I think you have related a good way to refer to the post here, and that is how the CL fits
in with the Swaros. The CL would fit in on the B side, and that may be a bit under the A side,
the top dogs, the SV and the SLC.

I do like the link you posted, as I have always liked Buck Owens, but this is not the Beatles
"B" side, as there was not one. This is just Ringo Starr from 1989, after the Beatles.

So this is Ringo at his best, and a B side player. Good of you to post.

Jerry

 

[brocknroller]

Brock:

I think you have related a good way to refer to the post here, and that is how the CL fits
in with the Swaros. The CL would fit in on the B side, and that may be a bit under the A side,
the top dogs, the SV and the SLC.

I do like the link you posted, as I have always liked Buck Owens, but this is not the Beatles
"B" side, as there was not one. This is just Ringo Starr from 1989, after the Beatles.

So this is Ringo at his best, and a B side player. Good of you to post.

Jerry

If you go by sales, Ringo was at his best on "Yellow Submarine," an A-side #1 hit.

The video performance was after the Beatles, but "Act Naturally," which Ringo sang lead vocal on, was released in 1965 as the B-side of the Beatles hit song "Yesterday". Buck Owens made "Act Naturally" a hit, but he didn't write it either.

Here's the info on the Beatles record (see #27):

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/mattymath/love_them_beatle_b_sides

The A-side, "Yesterday," is the most covered pop song of all time, over 3,000 versions recorded, according to The Guinness Book Of World Records. For years, it was also the song with the most radio plays, until "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" passed it in 1999. Still, at any given time, some version of "Yesterday" is probably being broadcast somewhere and the estate of Michael Jackson is getting the royalties since Jackson outbid McCartney when the Beatles "catalog" was up for sale (afterward, Ebony and Ivory never sat together side by side on the piano keyboard again .

I heard "Yesterday" playing at the supermarket yesterday! It was "Twofer Tuesday" on our local pop station, so they played two Beatle songs in a row, and the other song was, as you probably guessed, "Act Naturally," which made me think of it when Sancho posted about B-sides.

From all the EL clones "Here, There, and Everywhere" (a new one seems to pop up every few months), the EL design may be the most "covered" (or uncovered since it's an open bridge bin design of all time. If Zeiss comes out with an open bridge design, that will clinch it for sure.

Brock (the real 5th Beatle)

 

[CliveP]

To much sun

Hi Sancho.

There was a lot of solar radiation up here early yesterday which as you know is very unusual and I think maybe I had a touch of an overdose. I guess it was nice down your way too.

Anyhow you have forced me to promote my latest music love. In with the new. All the way from Uncle Sam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imECYtCEkbw&feature=related

CL connection? Its in one of their other tunes? You have to listen to them all to find it.

BTW Sancho. Never purchase a motorcycle. Every time I pass one of those pedally things I have this ouch feeling. No pain, no PAIN!

 

[gulf1263]

Swarovski CL 8x30's

Hello all:
Need to clarify on tests of 8x30(2) bins.
Will not be able to compare to either the Leica or the Zeiss.
It seems the 8x33 Genisis are pretty good glasses, I still need to try to test them under cloudy conditions vs the CL's.
The point I am trying to make is I like looking through the SLC's, the EL's and the Genisis.
They are different but still "fun" to look through which is why I won't be doing a formal test (plus I prefer to actually look at stuff vs test glass these days).
A lady friend used the Kowa 8x25BD's to look at the black bear about forty feet away in her neighbors yard...it looked to be about three years old and just passing through.
IMHO that is what this is all about, looking at something and going "neat".
What glass you can afford that lets you look at something and go "neat" is what it is all about.
Remember, in Alaska you are not at the top of the food chain.
Some of our Fauna have a new motto "Tourists, they not just for lunch".
Be well, enjoy the views.
Art

 

[Kammerdiner]

Any updates on the CL's from users? I'm still on the fence since I have the 8x32 FL. Maybe they're just out using the silly things.

Mark

 

[brocknroller]

Hello all:
Need to clarify on tests of 8x30(2) bins.
Will not be able to compare to either the Leica or the Zeiss.
It seems the 8x33 Genisis are pretty good glasses, I still need to try to test them under cloudy conditions vs the CL's.
The point I am trying to make is I like looking through the SLC's, the EL's and the Genisis.
They are different but still "fun" to look through which is why I won't be doing a formal test (plus I prefer to actually look at stuff vs test glass these days).
A lady friend used the Kowa 8x25BD's to look at the black bear about forty feet away in her neighbors yard...it looked to be about three years old and just passing through.
IMHO that is what this is all about, looking at something and going "neat".
What glass you can afford that lets you look at something and go "neat" is what it is all about.
Remember, in Alaska you are not at the top of the food chain.
Some of our Fauna have a new motto "Tourists, they not just for lunch".
Be well, enjoy the views.
Art

Art,

Could you please explain the term "going neat" as used in your post above? I haven't heard that expression in the lower 48. Is that a "Palinism"?

Does it mean, run like crazy when you see an animal that can eat you?

I would also like to read a bit more commentary on your comparison of the three bins (you don't have to bench test them at 56x), just some eyeball to eyeball A/B/Cs in terms of apparent brightness, on-axis resolution, edge performance, contrast, and color saturation.

I'd also be interested in how handling the compact-sized CL compares to the midsized 8x30 SLC. I like the front focuser set up on the CL mooreorless than the objective side focuser on the SLC, but looking at the photo of the CL dangling from the neck of Peak Birder (see post #48 on this thread), it looks like a large pedant. All it needs is some detailing with Swarovski crystals!

Thanks.

Brock

 

[ivan86]

I have just ordered a Swarovski CL 10x30, i will let you know what i think.

greets

 

[mooreorless]

Brock that would be going/saying "neat" or thinking it, while using binoculars and seeing something like a bear, owl etc. etc. Or you could think "cool" after seeing a eagle etc. Don't know what Palin has to do with all this. You-uns are just not with it nowadays!

 

[brocknroller]

Brock that would be going/saying "neat" or thinking it, while using binoculars and seeing something like a bear, owl etc. etc. Or you could think "cool" after seeing a eagle etc. ....

I think I just entered that Twilight Zone episode again with Robert Klein where people use words with different meanings than I understand them to be.

I can understand that spotting an eagle would be "cool" but don't understand why seeing an owl would be "neat" rather than "cool".

Took me 20 years to "grok" country colloquialisms such as "hold on onect" or the roads are "slippy" or the kitchen "needs cleaned" or "I drive truck".

Maybe in another 20 years, I'll figure out "going neat".

Stranger in a Strange Land

 

[Kammerdiner]

I think I just entered that Twilight Zone episode again with Robert Klein where people use words with different meanings than I understand them to be.

I can understand that spotting an eagle would be "cool" but don't understand why seeing an owl would be "neat" rather than "cool".

Took me 20 years to "grok" country colloquialisms such as "hold on onect" or the roads are "slippy" or the kitchen "needs cleaned" or "I drive truck".

Maybe in another 20 years, I'll figure out "going neat".

Stranger in a Strange Land

Brock,

It's going "neat." As in dialogue. Not "going neat." As in verbs or something.

I tend to "go neat" myself, with a good Scotch anyway.

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[lilcrazy2]

Kinda like a bunch of people watching a magic trick - some say "neat", some say "cool", and others don't say anything because they still don't get it.

Tom

 

[james holdsworth]

replace ''going'' with ''saying.''

...or saying the word 'neat.'