To Suppress or not to surpress ? (1 Viewer)

[Socar MYLES]

I've heard people complaining about birds flying away because of burst-mode shooting, and then being surprised when informed they could turn the burst mode off. Some people don't appear to be overly familiar with their equipment.

 

[knotsbirder]

1 in 10 is a fairly poor average.... Considering you have 5 fps you lose 100% of birds within 2 seconds....

I'm sure you realise I didn't actually mean 1 in 10!

Sam

 

[Robin Edwards]

My main bug bear is when I am sitting in a bird hide looking at a more unsual bird, and I am taking photos. (by the way this could apply to being outdoors in a field or anywhere at all)

It is quiet, and the people are enjoying the view of a more unusual bird, and they keep their voices down and talk to one another to share an experience.

Enter the man/men or woman/women with a huge lens - they sit down, and their camera shutter speed is so loud and fast that the bird is frightened off.

I know that you can switch of your camera from clattering on and on so why do people need to do this

Is this a person who cares about birds or just a selfish person on a quest to get 'the' bird?

End of story!! :C

Just inconsiderate towards the birds, and people at the same time. :C

Regards
Kathy
x

Feeling de ja vu on this reply Kathy so my sincere apologies if I've already exchanged thoughts on the subject you raise here.

Now I am a birder, not a photographer, but I have a mid-range 400mm lens which I use to point at birds. The lens in terms of size is not dissimilar to that of an average birding scope, silent in nature unless clattered around in the hide. When shooting birds I often maximise my chances using A1 Servo or continuous firing of the shutter and as others have said - you are wrong to think that the mechanical action of the mirror moving inside the camera can be completely muted. This said, some cameras are quieter than others and I don't believe the noise from mine to be that excessive. A noisy camera is slightly counter-productive, wouldn't you agree?

Being totally honest given the many 000's of images I've taken over the years, I can't recall instances of a bird flying away because of the noise my shutter has made when shooting from a public hide. Now I do have instances where the movement of pointing the lens at the bird from the hide might have prompted the bird to fly but before the shutter has fired.

As a birder, on balance I would say that there is far more noise from a bird hide that is omitted from a source other than someone's camera and as I've said, I've clearly not had the same experiance as you where the camera noise has been so intolerable and has flushed the bird - we must just frequent different hides

 

[rosbifs]

I'm sure you realise I didn't actually mean 1 in 10!

Sam

9 times out of 10 you don't flush the bird therefore 1 in 10 you do.

That said I personally doubt that shutter noise does have a significant effect on bird disturbance. More likely would be the pushing and shoving for position and then sticking the lens out of the window. Go to aguamolls, spain on a weekend and you will learn about bird disturbance...

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

9 times out of 10 you don't flush the bird therefore 1 in 10 you do.

That said I personally doubt that shutter noise does have a significant effect on bird disturbance. More likely would be the pushing and shoving for position and then sticking the lens out of the window. Go to aguamolls, spain on a weekend and you will learn about bird disturbance...

I would have thought he meant 9 out of 10 occasions, rather than 9 out of 10 frames, but who knows that would have been the logical way to take it :t:

 

[Tarsiger]

As a camera user I'd love my SLR not to make so much noise but it's still quieter than a gaggle of birders and I don't remember the last time a bird so much as flinched at the noise.
Generally it's hand/arms/lenses protruding from a hide and of course taking that one extra stride into the 'circle-of-fear' that causes a response.
Russ

 

[simmojunior]

I have no issue with justified suppression but I object to invite-only twitches when it is on grounds of disturbance because if the observers were really concerned about the welfare of a bird, they would not invite a group of mates who could potentially disturb the bird in question.

 

[knotsbirder]

I would have thought he meant 9 out of 10 occasions, rather than 9 out of 10 frames, but who knows that would have been the logical way to take it :t:

That's of course what I meant. I also didn't mean 1 in 10, I just meant very infrquently. In my own experience it's closer to 1 in 100, if that!

Sam

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

That's of course what I meant. I also didn't mean 1 in 10, I just meant very infrquently. In my own experience it's closer to 1 in 100, if that!

Sam

That reflects my own experience too. Also very much agree with everything Robin said in his post above. I've never had a bird flush from the sound of camera shutter, from a hide or otherwise. I agree that the movement of raising a camera sometimes does, but no more so than raising bins or turning a scope

 

[Mark Batten]

I do understand your desire to be alone Tideliner, and to shun the crowds. The thing is 99% of the time you would be alone and enjoying your hobby in the way you choose, anyway. You might get 1 or 2 great finds in your lifetime where lots of others come to see a bird. Within a few days the crowds will be gone and you'll be on your own again. Is it not worth sacrificing a couple of days to share your sighting with the masses? You could even spend those days a couple of miles along the coast if the crowds bother you that much (though I say revel in the glory, it's a great feeling to make others happy).

You have witnessed some poor behaviour which has put you off spreading news. And yes there are some idiots around, no question about that. But they are in the minority and could equally be simply branded 'birders', a group that encompasses us all, including you! Those flushing tired migrants might well be 'rarity hunters' who don't twitch at all. Labelling a group of people with the traits of a minority is after all by definition, prejudice. Others are beginners even and haven''t learnt the 'error' of their ways. The 'good' a twitch brings nearly always outweighs the 'bad' and the 'bad' is usually kept in check by other birders present anyway.

Try not to stereotype the 'twitcher' as a tick-obsessed invader who cares nothing for birds. Most birders care deeply about birds and the environment and many of them are twitchers. The problem is you probably don't know any of these twitchers personally. I twitch myself but I spend most of my time patch working and watching common birds. And if you've travelled any distance to see a particular bird (even just a hundred yards!) you have been a twitcher yourself. Remember we wouldn't know a tenth of what we now know about birds if the knowledge wasn't shared with others.

Suppression has turned parts of the country into an unpleasant place to be interested in birds where bad feeling runs high and politics rule what should be a wonderful hobby for us all. I love birding in Norfolk and cringe at some of what I hear happens in the east of the county. Share your good fortune and spread the news! B

James

James. In full agreement. Best Wishes.

Mark.

 

[George London]

1 in 10 is a fairly poor average.... Considering you have 5 fps you lose 100% of birds within 2 seconds....

Even if it is 1 in 10 I'm not sure I follow your logic/maths. At 5 frames per second that makes 10 frames in two seconds. That would, erm, mean you lose 10% in two seconds, not 100%. It also means you lose 10% however many frames you take ie 90% of the time you don't. Or, put another way, 9 times out of 10 you don't. Pretty much as Sam originally said in fact.

And I thought our schooling was poor!!:-O

 

[rosbifs]

And I thought our schooling was poor!!:-O

Maths was supposed to be my strongest subject... Clearly not....

 

[pppppvvvv]

Ooh, hard sums, I have in MSc in Hard sums, perhaps I can offer some clarity.. and you know what, I found myself thinking "is there any point?"

 

[dantheman]

Ooh, hard sums, I have in MSc in Hard sums, perhaps I can offer some clarity.. and you know what, I found myself thinking "is there any point?"

There's no need to be obtuse.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Apologies, I had no intention to drag this further off track. again, not that it matters a great deal!
And Dantheman: the mathematical reference didn't go un-noticed! nice one

 

[Birdman7]

Tolerance & respect

With tolerance and respect everything can and will work. One just has to see how the world has changed for the worse when one one, the other, or both is missing from the equation. With tolerance and respect, birds, birdwatchers and twitchers can co-exsist in harmony. In fact, there is a 4th genre in this equation which has gone unoticed, bird photographers. Some bird photographers just have no respect for the bird, let alone the flowers / plants / grasses they are treading on!

 

[tittletattler]

but I can only relate my experiance of my personel contact with them during on average my 300+ days a year in the field.

If you are who I think you are, then we have been birding together and you also joined some of us for a seawatch at Reculver?

I am a twitcher and I don't seem to recall you hating every minute of contact with us. You did not react like a cat in a basket on the back seat of the car. In fact you were good company mate.

That said, I too have witnessed poor behaviour on twitches so I can understand your position.

Cheers, Andy.

 

[Tideliner]

mis post