two birds - west Romania (1 Viewer)

[eliz82]

i shoot this images this week on a mountain river called Crisul-Alb in the west Romania. the river already frozen partially

it the first time when i see this birds on this river. i believe the both are here accidentally.
what species do you think they are ?

 

[SteveClifton]

How big did you think the first bird was. Little Grebe sized or Red-necked sized? My first instinct was the latter-perhaps a youngish bird, but now there's a niggling that it could just be a long billed Little Grebe. This should be easy, but...

 

[eagle33]

Little Grebes for the first 2 not sure about the last one will have to look at it harder any more info for pic 3?

 

[SteveClifton]

Agree with Craig that it's just a Little Grebe, but from just looking at the thumbnails Red-necked certainly comes to mind. Still one of the longest-billed Little Grebes I've ever seen.

Like Craig, not sure about the second bird with that one image.

Steve

 

[Fast_falkon]

Little Grebe and... Green Sandpiper?

 

[eagle33]

Little Grebe and... Green Sandpiper?

Thats the only wader i can think of too, (Green Sandpiper)

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Little Grebe and (probably) Green Sandpiper.

 

[Julian Sykes Wildlife]

Possibly Common Snipe, I would have thought a Green Sandpiper's white rump would be visible?.
Good mystery photo bird this.

All the best Jules

 

[Fast_falkon]

Possibly Common Snipe, I would have thought a Green Sandpiper's white rump would be visible?.
Good mystery photo bird this.

All the best Jules

You can't see the birds rump.
Also, a Snipes wing would have a diffrent colouration

 

[Julian Sykes Wildlife]

ok

 

[deborah4]

.Also, a Snipes wing would have a diffrent colouration

have p.s'd image a little

I wouldn't rule out a Common Snipe with so much conviction in fact, I'd go so far as to say I think it is one! Narrow trailing edge to secondaries, heavily tipped white on upper coverts, impression of dark/rufous looking vent (all inconsistent with Green Sand but consistent with a snipe species) .... It's the flight gizz/position that reminds me very strongly of a snipe species but unclear pics can be misleading for sure!

compare upper wing Green Sand:
http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9trioch195.html

Dark underwing of Green Sand
http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9trioch194.html

Common Snipe - pale underwing
http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9galgal200.html

Common Snipe - upperwing pattern
http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9galgal190.html

and dark patterned tail coverts
http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9galgal204.html

 

[Cettia]

I didn't discard Snipe easily. A dirty undertail coverts, white trailing edge on secs, upperwing pattern (not easy to see) and even the underwing pattern (some barred feathers can be seen on the outer wing and is really not very dark (I'guess the dark appearance is due to the sun reflects)) point to a Gallinago rather than any tringa spec.

 

[bitterntwisted]

Very odd looking bill which is reminiscent of RNG, but agree on Little Grebe.

No-one fancy Woodcock for the wader?

Graham

 

[deborah4]

No-one fancy Woodcock for the wader?

Graham

If one considers snipe, then woodcock of couse may be in the mix. However, Woodcock is almost complete barred on belly ( but only finely so perhaps wouldn't show at this resolution although I think it would give the impression of a much darker belly than shows in pic. ) However, w/c don't show a white trailing edge to secondaries as far as I'm aware and primaries are very contrastingly barred on underwing (which again may not show at this resolution!). Upperwing pattern doesn't look right either. Flight position doesn't look so good to me - w/c not as erect as gallinago sp.

 

[nickderry]

At a quick glance, I thought green sand at first, but yes, the white trailing edge, the patch of colour on the undertail coverts and the more pot-bellied shape make it a snipe for me. First one is a little grebe.

 

[lou salomon]

snipe for me too. irritating when you don't see its bill. green sand can readily be excluded on pale underwing. the eye looks very exposed (on the outer 'edge') on head which favours snipe as well. white trainling edged on wing and you can see some reddish buff on the tail side.

 

[eliz82]

How big did you think the first bird was. Little Grebe sized or Red-necked sized?

it was very small size. no more then 20cm from beak to tail. a more experienced photographer friend that was with me the second time when i shoot this said to me that this possibly to be a little grebe. but he never shoot this species in the wild. i shoot this and the species look different to me. both the adult and the little chicks. i saw little grebe in the summer and the mother adult had a more red-brown color.
is this a subadult or they have different plumage in the winter ? is the male look different on this species (i think i only saw female in the summer).

my friend also said to me that it will probably die. |=(|
do you think this will survive over winter ?
-------------------------

not sure about the last one will have to look at it harder any more info for pic 3?

the problem is that i didn't remember to much details.
i was trying to approach a kingfisher that was in a tree 15meters from me. so i was focus on him, when from the rivers rocks (5-8meters from me) fly this bird. actually if i was careful i think i could shoot some very beautiful pictures because the bird wasn't scary if it let me get that close.
from the deborah4 pictures i tend to think that it wasn't the Common Snipe, because i don't remember to see such a huge bill.
but from i remember the plumage seem more light-grey than what I see on pictures of the Green Sandpiper. the color look more like this one: http://www.birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/9galgal200.html
is the Green Sandpiper have a more light color plumage in the winter ?

p.s.
- regarding the third picture you should not trust my words very much because all happened very fast, and it is the first time for me when i saw this species
- i decrease the contrast on the third picture on the RAW file to recover some details highlight areas (i shoot this against the sun). it is possible that this would make the dark grey (from reality) to be more light grey (in the picture).
-----------------------------------
@later edit:
i have seen some pictures of the green sandpiper:
http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/images/GreenSandp8286.jpg
http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/media/blogs/kuwait/G-Sandpiper.jpg
i saw different plumage on the exterior of the wings. if i consider the light grey color from the first image it may be very close with I'm remember.

 

[deborah4]

the problem is that i didn't remember to much details.
...
from the deborah4 pictures i tend to think that it wasn't the Common Snipe ...
- regarding the third picture you should not trust my words very much because all happened very fast, and it is the first time for me when i saw this species
.

If you are not happy to accept the ID that's fair enough, it's not a very clear pic. It's not entirely impossible that the 3 or 4 experienced birders who have agreed on it's ID could be wrong but I don't think so although it does happen often enough. . In flight, the bill of a Snipe appears much shorter than it does if you see the bird on the ground - a kind of illusionary thing I guess as the eye is always drawn to the wings of a bird in flight before anything else, since this is the largest area of body visible (and by that token, all bills can give the impression of being shorter in flight than on the ground with wings folded in my experience.) Also, the bird appears to be flying away from you, the bill, even a long one, is obscured by the angle of the wing. Common Snipe plumage varies enormously in tone, some can be quite greyish looking and a lot can also depend on lighting.

Look at the dark vent/undertail covert area on this one & compare your photo
http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?search=1&mode=search&sp=57051&rty=0&off=186390&v=