UK- Wiltshire- Fovant- January- Eurasian or Short-toed Treecreeper (1 Viewer)

[Butty]

Anyone who cares enough to have ticks also knows what’s out of range

! 🤣🤣
(Sorry - I've calmed down now.)

 

[Owene]

! 🤣🤣
(Sorry - I've calmed down now.)

That’s great sat here online. I’d guess 99% if users in the field are going ‘thought I heard a crest somewhere’ and laughing at the unlikely stuff. But it’s much easier for people to pretend that anyone who uses any technology doesn’t use any critical assessment at all.

Even though the alternative has always been a handful of book illustrations and somebody’s attempt to translate bird noises into human words.

It’s a tool. If anyone is stupid enough to be adding out of range birds to a list then I’d guess that they are both a tiny number of users but also irrelevant to the dozens of times it does pick up the correct things

It’s like photo id. If the photo is any good the id generally is too. If the id is crap then the photo or recording background noise probably is too. Most people who have got to the ‘tick’ stage understand that

 

[Owene]

Actually on the red dot thing. I’ve had it a lot for chiffchaff this month. Usually when there is a chiffchaff visible. It’s actually quite conservative about what could be present

 

[dantheman]

I’ve had that for a few things. Generally out of season birds.

I don’t think anyone is getting loads of extra ticks from this. Anyone who cares enough to have ticks also knows what’s out of range

I would be surprised at people ticking things, but some inexperienced (I wouldn't call them stupid per se) might not know better, which is what this is about really - the prime example being ST Treecreeper.


Depends on how important accuracy is deemed. I guess there's a grey area of things that could be possible without being unlikely (EDIT: or even unlikely, but plausible) when on a birding trip (eg flyover Yellow Wagtail level) which could go on a trip list. And how much you trust the app (95% as opposed to 99.99%), which the individual has to put a trust level on.

Good to hear that the 'red dot' system works, at least for you.

 

[Owene]

I think you’ll get individuals who previously didn’t know anything about a species at all now wrongly thinking they are found in a certain place. But I’m sure the app has some fine print about that somewhere, I don’t think it’s actually a particularly big flaw.

 

[01101001]

As a complete aside, and don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but you have good shots of the hindclaw here ... and it is long! Shorter than the hind toe being the criteria for ST Treecreeper.

(Collins doesn't mention this feature, interestingly).

Isn't 'the hind claw as short as the front claws as opposed to longer' a better and easier to judge characteristic? I'm not convinced the hind claw is much shorter than the hind toe even on Short-toed Treecreepers (and--then--in this approach, you also have to factor in the fact that the claw is curved and the toe isn't).

Other than that, I've had many misidentifications suggested by Merlin, but I don't think it's ever strung a Short-toed Treecreeper: it's so distinctive you don't need an app to tell you. Unless it strung it on something else than its typical call.

 

[01101001]

@SpectrumRanger So, I'd say, go and grab a recording if you can, but don't hold your breath much because it's unlikely, and there are no previous records.

 

[dantheman]

Isn't 'the hind claw as short as the front claws as opposed to longer' a better and easier to judge characteristic? I'm not convinced the hind claw is much shorter than the hind toe even on Short-toed Treecreepers (and--then--in this approach, you also have to factor in the fact that the claw is curved and the toe isn't).

Other than that, I've had many misidentifications suggested by Merlin, but I don't think it's ever strung a Short-toed Treecreeper: it's so distinctive you don't need an app to tell you. Unless it strung it on something else than its typical call.

I went off this and a few other basic comments on the internet search.

http://blascozumeta.com/specie_files/14870_Certhia_brachydactyla_E.pdf

Happy to be pointed in the right direction ...

 

[01101001]

I wonder if my theory still holds water, though. Possibly, not.

 

[dantheman]

Other than that, I've had many misidentifications suggested by Merlin, but I don't think it's ever strung a Short-toed Treecreeper: it's so distinctive you don't need an app to tell you. Unless it strung it on something else than its typical call.

From Collins -

'Call a strong, Coal Tit-like 'tuut'* (with the two dot accent above each u), with clear and penetrating quality', often repeated several times'. Of course if it only hears it once ...

Since we tell birders a call you don't know 50% of the time is possibly going to be an odd Great Tit call ... ;-) I wonder how Merlin deals with Great Tits?!?!


*(I wrote it wrong earlier)

 

[Prestdj]

you cannot beat a good fieldguide and experiance never used merlin or any apps

learning birds is hard but start with local ones which you see everyday

nearly a lifetimev watching birds still learning

 

[01101001]

Looks like I was wrong indeed.

File:Certhia familiaris - 01.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.m.wikimedia.org

https://wiescizparku.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/pec582zacz-fot-agnieszka-rogc3b3lska.jpg

However, does that makes it a Eurasian?

ML63408941 - Short-toed Treecreeper - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML63408941; © Christoph Moning; Frankfurt am Main (Kreisfreie Stadt), Hessen, Germany

macaulaylibrary.org

EDIT: The difference seems to be that Short-toed has one more toe bone and joint, and not the length of the claw itself, which looks comparable (so--actually--Short-toed is the Long-Toed But Relatively Shorter-Clawed Treecreeper).

 

[antbird53]

Seems simple enough that it should have some kind of filter for what is likely in an area, although that may be a route they haven't gone down (might require tying in with eg ebird or a separate kind of work).

There are different packs available, e.g. Europe:Britain and Ireland, which if installed should narrow things down, plus need to let the app have access to your location

 

[Owene]

you cannot beat a good fieldguide and experiance never used merlin or any apps

learning birds is hard but start with local ones which you see everyday

nearly a lifetimev watching birds still learning

You absolutely can’t beat experience and continuing to learn. That’s 100% true.

Filedguides on the other hand are good as far as they go. We all have guides we like. But one guys transliteration of a call is obviously nowhere near as useful as a recording of the call and one diagram as talented as it may be done can’t come close to capturing variations of moult and regional difference

 

[01101001]

Ah ok, thank you. My Merlin app regularly picks them up. I take it that will be a blip then. I’ll have to listen to the recordings and compare. Thanks for the info.

Feel free to post a sample of the supposed ST Treecreeper in this thread. I'd be most interested.