unknown songbird, Extremadura (1 Viewer)

[eliotc]

I'm simply having trouble getting started on these two songbirds:

(1) one with a small, high pale bill and dark crown, vaguely reminiscent of North American Ammodramus sparrows: https://www.flickr.com/photos/eliotc/14339764704/. Pale Rock Sparrow perhaps? Location is Parque Ornitológico de Arrocampo near Saucedilla, Extremadura, Spain. Date is May 30. It was in plants adjacent to the reservoir.

(2) Also, a small large-eyed, thin-billed character perched on a barbed-wire fence in the steppes. https://www.flickr.com/photos/eliotc/14360977663/

Neither is a great photo, but maybe someone can offer a lead. Thanks for your help.

 

[Nutcracker]

Not the best of photos for identification, but maybe a female Euplectes species? I recall mention of feral populations of one or more species in this genus in Spain.

 

[Motmot]

#2 is a female Stonechat

 

[Simon Wates]

I agree on both photos - and I think the Euplectes is E.afer - Yellow-crowned Bishop - a feral introduced species in various locations in S.Iberian reedbeds.

 

[RafaelMatias]

My bet for the 1st one is Zitting Cisticola. Super long legs and visible structure seem to point only to this species (note also the pale eye-ring). Shortish bill might be an effect of angle and age (recently fledged juv?)?

 

[njlarsen]

My bet for the 1st one is Zitting Cisticola. Super long legs and visible structure seem to point only to this species (note also the pale eye-ring). Shortish bill might be an effect of angle and age (recently fledged juv?)?

Not sure in any sort of way, but the crown color seems very dark for this species?

Niels

 

[RafaelMatias]

Not sure in any sort of way, but the crown color seems very dark for this species?

Niels

A dark crown is OK (check here). I'm a bit more bothered with bill shape, but maybe image quality is not enough to evaluate this correctly. Euplectes weavers have shortish (relatively) legs.

 

[Rotherbirder]

My bet for the 1st one is Zitting Cisticola. Super long legs and visible structure seem to point only to this species (note also the pale eye-ring). Shortish bill might be an effect of angle and age (recently fledged juv?)?

The bird is a Euplectes sp. as has already been mentioned! It bears little if any resemblance to a Zitting cisticola of any age.

 

[RafaelMatias]

The bird is a Euplectes sp. as has already been mentioned! It bears little if any resemblance to a Zitting cisticola of any age.

I'm afraid some arguments are needed here to support such a strong sentence. I can also say "The bird is a Zitting Cisticola as has already been mentioned! It bears little if any resemblance to a Euplectes sp. of any age."
Leg length is a strong pointer, as well as the lack of facial features (and eye-ring, etc). Unfortunately, the jizz says Cisticola. Note this is a species I have in my backyard (in Portugal, where I am right now) and see in numbers every day. I don't know of any Euplectes species being as leggy as the OP bird. Note the difference we're talking here is basically huge.

 

[Nutcracker]

Zitting Cisticola doesn't fit in with the OP's comment "high pale bill and dark crown, vaguely reminiscent of North American Ammodramus sparrows" - that characteristic head shape of some passerines where the top of the bill merges into the crown (as in A in the sketch below). Cisticolas are more like most birds, like B below.

 

[Rotherbirder]

I'm afraid some arguments are needed here to support such a strong sentence. I can also say "The bird is a Zitting Cisticola as has already been mentioned! It bears little if any resemblance to a Euplectes sp. of any age."
Leg length is a strong pointer, as well as the lack of facial features (and eye-ring, etc). Unfortunately, the jizz says Cisticola. Note this is a species I have in my backyard (in Portugal, where I am right now) and see in numbers every day. I don't know of any Euplectes species being as leggy as the OP bird. Note the difference we're talking here is basically huge.

I respect your comments and your obviously regular experience of ZC but don't think any argument is necessary; if it pleases, I will revise my statement by prefixing it with "In my considered opinion ..." Having viewed the image on the desktop I still think that is a Euplectes but would be more inclined to go with Euplectes franciscanus rather than afer. I think franciscanus females/juvs tend to be less well marked and contrasty around the face than afer. Euplectes can appear very 'leggy' and this impression is enhanced - just as in ZC - by the rather truncated body shape due to the short tail, as I believe the OP photo shows nicely. The bill appears far too short & blunt for ZC, even allowing for the angle and this, combined with the apparent lack of forehead noted by Nutcracker also steers me towards Euplectes.

Looks like we'll be forced to agree to differ here as the photo isn't going to improve - unless an 'expert' steps in of course!? As I've said previously, I'm as willing and eager to learn as the next man, so ...

 

[RafaelMatias]

Zitting Cisticola doesn't fit in with the OP's comment "high pale bill and dark crown, vaguely reminiscent of North American Ammodramus sparrows" - that characteristic head shape of some passerines where the top of the bill merges into the crown (as in A in the sketch below). Cisticolas are more like most birds, like B below.

I think you're over-simplifying the issue a bit. Cisticolas are not exactly like B... Bill shape depends on angle and age, which you can see on the attached photo from 1 month ago and on the following links:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/faisca/34191218/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jsousa/3006071626/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jsousa/3694171082/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoelho2000/100054150/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22214681@N07/4812594630/ (bird on the background)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jose_viana/14038161977/

But yes, I find those words from the OP a bit puzzling and I believe this can be clarified by himself, by comparing what he saw with the various species being suggested here.

 

[RafaelMatias]

I think franciscanus females/juvs tend to be less well marked and contrasty around the face than afer.

I agree with this part...

Euplectes can appear very 'leggy' and this impression is enhanced - just as in ZC - by the rather truncated body shape due to the short tail,

I tend to agree here also

as I believe the OP photo shows nicely.

And here I must disagree. The OP photo does not show a bird that appears to be leggy. This is a leggy bird. ZC have long tarsi, Euplectes do not (even if they can appear so due to posture). You can even see the tibiotarsal joint, i.e. you can see the whole tarsus. This is not just a minor detail that we can overlook when analysing this bird. Look at both birds tarsi on the attached photo, which shows 2 Euplectes afer from the Tejo estuary (Euplectes franciscanus is basically the same in this regard).

The bill appears far too short & blunt for ZC, even allowing for the angle and this, combined with the apparent lack of forehead noted by Nutcracker also steers me towards Euplectes.

The bill appears short, but not tall at all on the photo. Lower mandible does not give any robust impression, definitely not as an Euplectes.

Looks like we'll be forced to agree to differ here as the photo isn't going to improve

Yes But the OP can present more photos if he has some...

 

[Tib78]

I totally agree with Rafael: it's a Cisticola.
On this kind of distant shots it's quite common for the bill to appear wider than expected on a cisticola.
A dark looking crown is just not a problem for Zitting cistivola either.
And I agree that the long, strikingly pale pinkish legs are typical for a cisticola too.

 

[Simon Wates]

This thread shows very well how photos can decieve. When I look at the photo its a dead ringer for Zitting Cisticola (structure, tone, markings etc ) but when I magnify it looks great for Euplectes afer - Yellow-crowned Bishop. In the field, in moments one would not confuse these two. I'm now convinced with ZC I think!

 

[eliotc]

Thanks to all of you for so much interesting discussion! I have been away from the computer, so I haven't posted other photos. These are absurdly poor, but perhaps, given the earlier discussion, they will reveal the answer.

In the very small one, which is a screencap from a video, the bird is in the center, facing down and to the left, about to take off.

 

[Jane Turner]

This thread shows very well how photos can decieve. When I look at the photo its a dead ringer for Zitting Cisticola (structure, tone, markings etc ) but when I magnify it looks great for Euplectes afer - Yellow-crowned Bishop. In the field, in moments one would not confuse these two. I'm now convinced with ZC I think!

Funny I went the other way on the pic normal size ...from its obviously a bishop...to look at those legs, Rafael is right on enlarging it!

 

[Jane Turner]

I note that there is a video. That would settle the argument very quickly!