Upton Warren (98 Viewers)

[luckyosprey4]

Cheers Chris - appreciated

Well Phil, the initials looked like SMR, hope that helps. Nothing much to report from this afternoon, I didn't see either of the Pintails. A couple of Siskins came around 3pm but nothing much else. Could anyone help identify this bird please
?

Chris

 

[Stone Snapper]

Well Phil, the initials looked like SMR, hope that helps. Nothing much to report from this afternoon, I didn't see either of the Pintails. A couple of Siskins came around 3pm but nothing much else. Could anyone help identify this bird please
?

Chris

female chaffinch
:t:

 

[luckyosprey4]

female chaffinch
:t:

Thanks, I'm rather used to the male bird when I go down!

Chris

 

[Stone Snapper]

few snaps from the warren today great company as always

1=coal tit
2=female kestrel
3=ltt
4=female bullfinch
5=female gold grest
:t:

 

[nokemyster]

Photos taken from the new hide at the Moors
1 - Water Rail
2 - Blackcap
3 - Brambling
4 - Goldfinch
5 - Siskin

Tony E.

absolutely lovely pics, superb pic of water rail. top stuff

 

[Stone Snapper]

few more from today
1=dunnock
2=f chaffinch
3=f kestrel
4=curlew
5=gsw

 

[Stone Snapper]

just a few pic's from yesterday morning,rained most of it.
1 water rail
2 bullfinch on feeders
3 water rail
4 green woody
5 pintail (male behind gulls female has head in water to the right)

well done birder gladys :t:

 

[forgetfulelephant]

few more from today
1=dunnock
2=f chaffinch
3=f kestrel
4=curlew
5=gsw

I'm liking those Vern. Curlew especially. :t:

Rob

 

[J_Caswell]

One from to-day,visited the new hide,very nice,lot of new faces,which has to be good for the Reserve.

 

[upstarts1979]

All-dayer today

Arrived at about 7.15am in the East hide, firstly to look for the 'missing calf'. The wind was a cold westerly with brief showers. The grazier walked around Amy's marsh looking for the calf (which he found OK and well), this pushed the wildfowl into the middle of the pool, making for an accurate count. The pair of pintail continually upended all the time I was there and the shoveler formed their 'circles'. It was also good to see that at least 4 wigeon were hanging on, but the Ruddy duck had vacated the site - hope that doesn't get me into trouble for mentioning it 8-P.Snipe were initially in low numbers, but then mid morning became active and congregated on the vegetated island below the hide. At least 2 Jack Snipe showed briefly and a few curlew dropped onto the 'pool island. Several water rails called out of site below the hide and along the west side of the pool.
There was plenty of passerine activity along the west side and around the hides, with Blackcaps, goldcrests, redpoll and siskin being the highlights. A sizeable flock of thrushes moved off to the SW, consisting mostly of Fieldfare with a couple each of mistle thrush and redwing. More redwings and a song thrush fed along the west track on hawthorn berries.
Today I checked every part of the reserve including the North Moors which was extremely quiet with migrant hawker and red admiral seen. Along the salwarp path to the Swan Inn held siskin and redpoll, but it was good to see all the thorn bushes planted last March have not only survived but are thriving.
A good working of the Education Reserve didn't produce the woodcock I was hoping for, but good numbers of redpoll and siskin and yet more goldcrests.
Onto the Flashes, where all was as the last few visits, with the gull roost standing at 450 BHG, 8 LBBG and 2 herrings, at least 20 snipe were about and 6 green sands and the usual 15 curlew roosted. Waterfowl totals were 40 teal, 23 greylags and 120 canadas.
The Hide builders were unloading the timber and work will start in the morning.
Species counts at Moors: GCG 5, Little grebe 2,shoveler 79, wigeon 4, pintail pr, teal c20, Mallard 60, gadwall 3, Tufted 38, pochard 8, coot 205, Snipe c20, Jack's 2,
Today I recorded 69 speciesB John. sorry I can't count it was 70

 

[upstarts1979]

View attachment 412487 One from to-day,visited the new hide,very nice,lot of new faces,which has to be good for the Reserve.

what's wrong with the 'old ones' and some of the very old ones8-P
john

 

[Woodchat]

Hi Dave

Firstly I think it's perfectly fine to have a bit of debate on the UW board, there are plenty of posts about pics etc, and afterall this is a birding board, read by many birders and people with interest in birding issues.
Secondly I hope you did not think my post was 'aimed' at you, although I quoted your post.

I think it is important to determine what we are debating though. Is it whether the cull was justified on scientific grounds or whether science supports the hypothesis that 'culling has successfully preserve and allowed the recovery of the WHD'

You drew attention to 2 articles about 'scientific evidence'.
My main intention was to highlight that scientific papers that get published are not sacrosanct, maybe less so now, but certainly 10 years ago and also it depended on which fileld of science you were referring too. The medical field lead the way in developing 'best practice' based on 'level of evidence'

I noted from that 1st abstract a number of issues that immediately sprang to mind, to tried to illustrate that it is quite possible to make suggestions that could easily call into question the veracity of a paper, and could account for evidence that the cull was a 'success', as afterall that is pretty much all we can do now.

I believe the concept of the cull was flawed because it was destined to fail, and it has, because other european countries have given up on it so will the RD will be exterminated in Europe? The question of whether genetic pollution is a reason cull a species is another debate, as is whether it is cost effective to save some species becoming extinct ( some well known TV naturalists have made some interesting comments on Panda's etc)

As to whether it is the cull that is the reason for the success in preserving the genetic purity of the WHD..how will we ever know, the do nothing option was not followed, or some sort of parallel conrtol ?

As far as trusting experts, this has become very difficult given their history of getting things so often wrong, they have even less excuse for it now, but continue to make poor decisions, even when the level of evidence strongly supports the opposite action.This is why I think it is justified to be sceptical and where possible, look at the evidence with an open mind and critical eye.

Mark :t:

No problem, Mark. I understand your skepticism, given recent events. If other countries have given up on the cull then further efforts in the UK may indeed be ultimately futile. Whether or not this leads to comprehensive adulteration of WHD as a genetically distinct species remains to be seen. The potential risk of this has, however, been identified and there is a suggestion in the RSPB article that the conservation of the WHD has knock-on benefits to other native species, via habitat safeguards - the ultimate justification of which may disappear in the circumstances of its demise. The current action has been started and it is possible that now may be the only opportunity to restore the situation to its original condition. If it were economically or practically feasible, would we rid the UK of Grey Squirrels or Mink to protect / restore our indigenous mammals (Reds and W Voles)? That is a rhetorical question - mainly because the opportunity to do this has now passed and it is almost definitely no longer possible to do.

I guess one's viewpoint will ultimately depend on how you define the role of conservation in the modern, globalised World. It may in fact be impossible to halt the ingress of destructive influences that threaten our native biodiversity - baselines will continue to shift - as they have throughout the human history of international trade and travel. There are likely to be winners and losers and we may have to accept that is not possible to preserve our wildlife in its pristine state. With the WHD, however, it may still be worth trying. :t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Any counts of Siskin or Redpoll John?

Has anyone noted the Cettis Warbler in recent days?

 

[woodwolf]

No problem, Mark. I understand your skepticism, given recent events. If other countries have given up on the cull then further efforts in the UK may indeed be ultimately futile. Whether or not this leads to comprehensive adulteration of WHD as a genetically distinct species remains to be seen. The potential risk of this has, however, been identified and there is a suggestion in the RSPB article that the conservation of the WHD has knock-on benefits to other native species, via habitat safeguards - the ultimate justification of which may disappear in the circumstances of its demise. The current action has been started and it is possible that now may be the only opportunity to restore the situation to its original condition. If it were economically or practically feasible, would we rid the UK of Grey Squirrels or Mink to protect / restore our indigenous mammals (Reds and W Voles)? That is a rhetorical question - mainly because the opportunity to do this has now passed and it is almost definitely no longer possible to do.

I guess one's viewpoint will ultimately depend on how you define the role of conservation in the modern, globalised World. It may in fact be impossible to halt the ingress of destructive influences that threaten our native biodiversity - baselines will continue to shift - as they have throughout the human history of international trade and travel. There are likely to be winners and losers and we may have to accept that is not possible to preserve our wildlife in its pristine state. With the WHD, however, it may still be worth trying. :t:

Thats an articulation mate with much merit, and points well made. We are indeed increasingly in unchartered waters with knew knowledge and science that can both present dilemmas as easily as solutions. By virtue of the fact each problem has limited precedent means that whatever action is taken will probably always cause some difference of oppinion.The main thing is that people engage on all levels, not just the scientists and 'experts' but all those with a passion for our natural history :t:

 

[upstarts1979]

Any counts of Siskin or Redpoll John?

Has anyone noted the Cettis Warbler in recent days?

Redpoll were widespread today, with a few moving around the site I would say 25 redpoll and no more than 5 siskin, 2 blackcap and 8 goldcrest:t:

 

[Woodchat]

Thats an articulation mate with much merit, and points well made. We are indeed increasingly in unchartered waters with knew knowledge and science that can both present dilemmas as easily as solutions. By virtue of the fact each problem has limited precedent means that whatever action is taken will probably always cause some difference of oppinion.The main thing is that people engage on all levels, not just the scientists and 'experts' but all those with a passion for our natural history :t:

Amen to that. :t:

 

[Dekthebilda]

rob sorry chris and i raced past you last night just trying to catch what was left of the light. forgot last night to come on the forum to tell you so.:t::t:

 

[UW82]

Arrived at about 7.15am in the East hide, firstly to look for the 'missing calf'. The wind was a cold westerly with brief showers. The grazier walked around Amy's marsh looking for the calf (which he found OK and well), this pushed the wildfowl into the middle of the pool, making for an accurate count. The pair of pintail continually upended all the time I was there and the shoveler formed their 'circles'. It was also good to see that at least 4 wigeon were hanging on, but the Ruddy duck had vacated the site - hope that doesn't get me into trouble for mentioning it 8-P.Snipe were initially in low numbers, but then mid morning became active and congregated on the vegetated island below the hide. At least 2 Jack Snipe showed briefly and a few curlew dropped onto the 'pool island. Several water rails called out of site below the hide and along the west side of the pool.
There was plenty of passerine activity along the west side and around the hides, with Blackcaps, goldcrests, redpoll and siskin being the highlights. A sizeable flock of thrushes moved off to the SW, consisting mostly of Fieldfare with a couple each of mistle thrush and redwing. More redwings and a song thrush fed along the west track on hawthorn berries.
Today I checked every part of the reserve including the North Moors which was extremely quiet with migrant hawker and red admiral seen. Along the salwarp path to the Swan Inn held siskin and redpoll, but it was good to see all the thorn bushes planted last March have not only survived but are thriving.
A good working of the Education Reserve didn't produce the woodcock I was hoping for, but good numbers of redpoll and siskin and yet more goldcrests.
Onto the Flashes, where all was as the last few visits, with the gull roost standing at 450 BHG, 8 LBBG and 2 herrings, at least 20 snipe were about and 6 green sands and the usual 15 curlew roosted. Waterfowl totals were 40 teal, 23 greylags and 120 canadas.
The Hide builders were unloading the timber and work will start in the morning.
Species counts at Moors: GCG 5, Little grebe 2,shoveler 79, wigeon 4, pintail pr, teal c20, Mallard 60, gadwall 3, Tufted 38, pochard 8, coot 205, Snipe c20, Jack's 2,
Today I recorded 69 speciesB John

Well done John. I avoided mentioning the duck whose name must not be used on Wednesday!


Des.

 

[upstarts1979]

GCG, Little grebe, cormorant, grey heron, mallard, teal, gadwall, wigeon, pintail, shoveler, tufted, pochard, Canada g, greylag, mute swan, buzzard, sparrowhawk, peregrine, kestrel, pheasant, water rail, moorhen, coot, lapwing, snipe, jack snipe, curlew, green sand, LBBG, Herring gull, BHG, stock dove, wood pigeon, collared dove, Little owl,kingfisher, green woodp, Gr sp woodp, C Crow, rook, jackdaw, jay, magpie, great tit, blue tit, coal tit, long tailed tit, treecreeper, wren, mistle thrush, fieldfare, song thrush, redwing, blackbird, robin, blackcap, goldcrest, dunnock, meadow pipit, pied wag, grey wag, starling, greenfinch, goldfinch, siskin, linnet, redpoll, bullfinch, chaffinch, reed bunting,

These are the 70 species I saw today, I didn't try for a big list today, so a few species are missing. I think cettis and raven have been seen in the last couple of days.
B John

 

[upstarts1979]

No problem, Mark. I understand your skepticism, given recent events. If other countries have given up on the cull then further efforts in the UK may indeed be ultimately futile. Whether or not this leads to comprehensive adulteration of WHD as a genetically distinct species remains to be seen. The potential risk of this has, however, been identified and there is a suggestion in the RSPB article that the conservation of the WHD has knock-on benefits to other native species, via habitat safeguards - the ultimate justification of which may disappear in the circumstances of its demise. The current action has been started and it is possible that now may be the only opportunity to restore the situation to its original condition. If it were economically or practically feasible, would we rid the UK of Grey Squirrels or Mink to protect / restore our indigenous mammals (Reds and W Voles)? That is a rhetorical question - mainly because the opportunity to do this has now passed and it is almost definitely no longer possible to do.

I guess one's viewpoint will ultimately depend on how you define the role of conservation in the modern, globalised World. It may in fact be impossible to halt the ingress of destructive influences that threaten our native biodiversity - baselines will continue to shift - as they have throughout the human history of international trade and travel. There are likely to be winners and losers and we may have to accept that is not possible to preserve our wildlife in its pristine state. With the WHD, however, it may still be worth trying. :t:

Great stuff Dave...........does it mean we can now mention the 'R' word 8-P