West Thailand birds (1 Viewer)

[S_Man]

Just for confirmation:

Mountains near Myanmar


I guess female Long-tailed Minivet? Doesn't look exactly like in my guide and app, but I don't see what else it could be.

Offshore, Andaman sea


Young Great Frigatebird...?

 

[bhutjoe]

In large part to bump up, I agree on both. The wing patch, longish tail relative to body, grey head without any yellow and the yellow chin exclude I believe any other minivets and are all good for long-tailed minivet female.
The lack of any pale "armpit" seems to indicate greater rather than lesser frigate bird.
There are others here with more expertise and may correct or even confirm
steve

 

[S_Man]

In large part to bump up, I agree on both. The wing patch, longish tail relative to body, grey head without any yellow and the yellow chin exclude I believe any other minivets and are all good for long-tailed minivet female.
The lack of any pale "armpit" seems to indicate greater rather than lesser frigate bird.
There are others here with more expertise and may correct or even confirm
steve

Thanks, I was curious about the apparent lack of yellow on the forehead of the Minivet, and the Frigate is on the wrong side of the peninsula, looking at the range map - but they fly so well that some have been spotted as far as India apparently. For some reason I got no feedback about these 2 birds on several platforms so I was intrigued, but maybe it's just too obvious...

 

[johnallcock]

Is the minivet Grey-chinned? The pale grey head, whitish chin and greenish upperparts seem a better fit than Long-tailed. Birds in northern Thailand appear to have a yellow throat, not grey as in some other parts of the range.
Grey-chinned:

ML609593347 - Gray-chinned Minivet - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML609593347; © sheau torng lim; Chiang Mai, Thailand

macaulaylibrary.org

ML504242291 - Gray-chinned Minivet - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML504242291; © Nattapong Banhomglin; Chiang Mai, Thailand

macaulaylibrary.org

Long-tailed:

ML614809817 - Long-tailed Minivet - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML614809817; © Ayuwat Jearwattanakanok; Chiang Mai, Thailand

macaulaylibrary.org

ML608980793 - Long-tailed Minivet - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML608980793; © Jan-Peter Kelder; Chiang Mai, Thailand

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[bhutjoe]

How fascinating the colour/plummage differences in a few at least species of Thai birds. I did think the tail appeared quite long but perhaps that is a misinterpretation. John, thanks for posting those photos.
s

 

[Bertus]

Hi S, could you specify which mountains near Myanmar? Only judging by numbers of obs (eBird, book) Grey-chinned would be more likely... Therefore exact location is needed...

 

[Andy Adcock]

Not sure why that's a Great Frigatebird, it's clearly developing the 'spur' in to the axillaries which it shouldn't have?

 

[S_Man]

Hi S, could you specify which mountains near Myanmar? Only judging by numbers of obs (eBird, book) Grey-chinned would be more likely... Therefore exact location is needed...

It's Mae Wong. But I wouldn't decide of an ID based on stats though... Grey-chinned is 4-5 x more common based on obs, despite a similar sized or even smaller range...

About the frigate, it's mostly the "tawny orange-yellow head and upper breast" that made me think of immature F. minor. Here is a picture of a Lesser bird shot on the same trip, white on the abdomen is also less extended on the lower part on average (here an immature/young female I'd guess):

vs

For young immature Lesser Frigate I have "Head, neck, chest and abdomen white with reddish streaks", and "head sometimes brown" which might be the case here, on the left.
About the 'developing' spurs, they are not really on the wings, more on the sides of the abdomen, and I can find plenty of images online of this species with 'spurs' like this one, more or less developed.
Looking at many pictures, variability is quite huge for all these criteria though...

 

[Andy Adcock]

It's Mae Wong. But I wouldn't decide of an ID based on stats though... Grey-chinned is 4-5 x more common based on obs, despite a similar sized or even smaller range...

About the frigate, it's mostly the "tawny orange-yellow head and upper breast" that made me think of immature F. minor. Here is a picture of a Lesser bird shot on the same trip, white on the abdomen is also less extended on the lower part on average (here an immature/young female I'd guess):

View attachment 1580755 vs View attachment 1580756

For young immature Lesser Frigate I have "Head, neck, chest and abdomen white with reddish streaks", and "head sometimes brown" which might be the case here, on the left.
About the 'developing' spurs, they are not really on the wings, more on the sides of the abdomen, and I can find plenty of images online of this species with 'spurs' like this one, more or less developed.
Looking at many pictures, variability is quite huge for all these criteria though...

Which is where they should be, the 'armpit',

Frigatebird ID can be seriously challenging, I spent months, supine, in Asia and never definitively ID'd Great Frigatebird.

https://ebird.org/species/grefri

Note above ' All-dark plumage of male and lack of a pale “armpit” in female and immature separate this species from Lesser and Christmas Island Frigatebirds. '

I respectfully submit, that images of birds assigned to this species, with white axillaries, are wrongly identified. I have no books with me right now but there is also something about the 'bite mark' in the white belly patch, it should be either convex or concave, forget that bit?

 

[Bertus]

Hi S, Mae Wong is very good for birding. I was there last year November. We found Golden Marten too and quite some birds...

I looked at the Avibase checklist for Mae Wong NP: Mae Wong National Park bird checklist - Avibase - Bird Checklists of the World
There are 7 different species of Minivet on that list, including the Grey-chinned M. That is more than in my Robson's guide. But no Long-tailed M.

Nick Upton on Thaibirding.com reports only three species, the Grey-chinned, the Short-billed and the Scarlet M. Mae Wong National Park Bird Checklist. Again, no Long-tailed...

Even in eBird there are no obs around Mae Wong NP.

So I guess you might conclude that whether you were the first to spot a Long-tailed there, but indeed much more likely it was a Grey-chinned Minivet as John proposed.

 

[S_Man]

Hi S, Mae Wong is very good for birding. I was there last year November. We found Golden Marten too and quite some birds...

I looked at the Avibase checklist for Mae Wong NP: Mae Wong National Park bird checklist - Avibase - Bird Checklists of the World
There are 7 different species of Minivet on that list, including the Grey-chinned M. That is more than in my Robson's guide. But no Long-tailed M.

Nick Upton on Thaibirding.com reports only three species, the Grey-chinned, the Short-billed and the Scarlet M. Mae Wong National Park Bird Checklist. Again, no Long-tailed...

Even in eBird there are no obs around Mae Wong NP.

So I guess you might conclude that whether you were the first to spot a Long-tailed there, but indeed much more likely it was a Grey-chinned Minivet as John proposed.

Yes, I've seen the marten every time I go to Mae Wong! It's just so crowded now, but still good for birding - mainly along the roads, in the upper area, or just watching from the camps.

Good point about the lists, but the area is still well into the range of the Long-tailed (and there is a dot there on e-Bird map for this species)... so I would definitely NOT be the first to have spotted it ;-) - if this was one. These examples shown by John are convincing, but I can find similar head patterns for the Long-tailed ...

Same for the Frigate, true that many images on the web are most likely wrongfully assigned, but different guides offer different criteria for identification, so... for now although mine is very basic, I'll follow it (ie quotes in my previous post)...

Anyway, thank you all! at least I get some more info to take into account now!

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

The female Minivet is a Grey-chinned for reasons cited by JA above.

Identification of Fregata is notoriously difficult particularly in second-year which, I believe the OP to be, the breast band is reduced to side tabs + some random black mottling and the head looks freshly moulted. It is either Great or a Christmas Island but that is where it becomes very tricky. I would very tentatively suggest second-year Christmas Island but suggest you contact the author of the paper in the link below for a more authoritative opinion. His details are no longer correct but I'd happily PM you with the latest address I have for him.

Andy, contra ebird, c30% of juvenile Great possess axillary spurs which they would lose in their second year and never regain-see link below (plate 22 + table on page 37)

https://www.researchgate.net/public...t_and_Lesser_Frigatebirds_BirdingASIA_1_22-38

Grahame

 

[andyb39]

I agree with this. Yellowish or buff head feathering indicates a 2nd-year bird. Juveniles of all three species have a breast band but that of Lesser is the narrowest and sits highest, so it's more like a collar. We can in any case rule out Lesser as it has a relatively small bill. According to the article, Christmas Island loses its breast band most gradually and almost always shows remnant "tabs", mentioned by Grahame, which are typically not present in the other two species. These are broad and prominent and extend into the centre of the bird's underside, and in the OP, give the impression that the bird has axillary spurs. If you look at plate 21 in the article, that particular individual Great lacks any remnant of the breast band and also has black mottling on the belly, marking the "belly point" that is developing. The OP has breast mottling but a clean white belly and resembles the Christmas Island individual in plate 20 more closely.

It would of course be a good idea to get David James's opinion. He's very helpful in my experience.

 

[S_Man]

Thanks both Grahame and Andy. There were hundreds of frigate birds this day, most very high, so I just tried to get shots of "different kinds". Mostly Lesser, the only Christmas Island birds I could ID were adult males and this young female - if it's one:



although the head and neck are not reddish anymore.

I'll try to dig into the articles and see if I have more pictures in a backup but obviously the OP is a difficult ID anyway.