Western yellow wagtail subspecies identification - Istanbul, Turkey (1 Viewer)

[cduruk]

These were all at the same location, in April 2021. Would you agree with my below classifications? Any other thoughts? Thanks very much in advance...

1-flava - female
2-feldegg - male
3-thunbergi - male
4-thunbergi - male
5-flava - male

 

[KenM]

I’m thinking 3, and 5, are dombrowskii,
2, feldegg and 4, thunbergi.

Cheers

 

[Steve Lister]

I wouldn't like to put a name to the birds in 1 but Ken I think is right with the others.
'Dombrowskii' if I remember correctly is an intergrade between feldegg and flava, right?

 

[KenM]

I wouldn't like to put a name to the birds in 1 but Ken I think is right with the others.
'Dombrowskii' if I remember correctly is an intergrade between feldegg and flava, right?

Wish I could answer Steve!…think you’ll need a much higher pay grade for that one.👍

 

[MJB]

I wouldn't like to put a name to the birds in 1 but Ken I think is right with the others.
'Dombrowskii' if I remember correctly is an intergrade between feldegg and flava, right?

Intergrades of beema & feldegg can produce 'dombrowskii'-type individuals with grey ear-coverts and so cannot be separated from tschutschensis Arend Wassink 2015. Other intergrades may be available...
MJB
Wassink, A. 2015. The new Birds of Kazakhstan. De Cocksdorp. Texel, Nederland.

 

[cduruk]

Many thanks to all the contributors. One follow-up question, on the birds in photo no. 1: It seems that you all think they are unidentifiable. I have read somewhere that juveniles of western yellow wagtails cannot be differentiated at the subspecies level. Since the photo is taken in the month of April, do they still not have adult feathers as of their first year?

 

[lou salomon]

Many thanks to all the contributors. One follow-up question, on the birds in photo no. 1: It seems that you all think they are unidentifiable. I have read somewhere that juveniles of western yellow wagtails cannot be differentiated at the subspecies level. Since the photo is taken in the month of April, do they still not have adult feathers as of their first year?

They are female types, not juveniles, and as such quite hard to assess to subspecies apart from that they have a supercillium. As for all individuals shown here I'd guess they probably are hybrids of feldegg x flava, including 2 and 4. The apparent feldegg (2) has a green nape and 4 has a grey head but also with green intermixed on crown, a typical sign of these kinds of hybrids.

 

[01101001]

Plate 40 - Wagtails - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment

Not of much value to the discussion now, but I think it's a nice plate.

 

[cduruk]

Many thanks for the new comments. This is not a conclusion, but now I see that classifying the subspecies of western yellow wagtails is more difficult than I thought. I need more sightings on my part, and this thread will be a valuable source as I see more yellow wagtails. Any additional comments are more than welcome, I receive e-mail alerts for each of those. Best regards to all,