What's the view through a 1996 Leica Trinovid BCA 8x20 like in 2022? (2 Viewers)

[yarrellii]

I'm considering the purchase of a used (but in good condition) 1996 Leica Trinovid BCA 8x20. I've read everything I've been able to find here on Birdforum about the 8x20 Trinovid BC/A, but since it's such a long standing model in the Leica range, it seems plausible that there have been improvements in coatings/performance over the years.

As far as I understand a 1996 Trinovid BCA already incorporated phase correction, but I'm not sure about the overall performance compared to current optics. To give a bit of a background, as a "pocket" I'm using a MIC Zeiss Terra ED 8x25, but I'm a bit disappointed by the "pocket" side of the Terra. Performance-wise is a fine instrument, but it's a hair taller than a 8x32 Diamondback HD (which offers a more comfortable view and a brighter image on cloudy days), and it's neither the lightest thing to carry in your pocket at +300 g. Hence my interest in a pocket binocular that is really pocketable but offers good performance.

I've used different Leica models over the years and I've enjoyed the image (UV 8x32 and 10x50, UVHD 8x32, Retro 7x35, BA 7x42), the most likely contemporaneous was a 7x42 Trinovid BA, but since they're drastically different models I'm afraid little useful information can be derived from my experience and recollection of the 7x42.

Any impression, memory or piece of information is much appreciated.


EDIT: Just to avid misunderstandings, the exterior appearance of the binocular is the latest incarnation of the 8x24 BCA: Leica logo in the center and two parallel protruding "fins" along the central body, on both sides of the Logo.
The serial number on these starts by 132XXXX, and according to Leica, dates back to 1996. Other forum members have stated that their untis followed an timeline that seems coherent for this model:
127XXXX,1994
128XXXX, 1995
165XXXX, 2002

 

[Trinovid]

Very interested in seeing some of the input from other members as I've been considering a pair at some time later in the year myself.

 

[yarrellii]

Thanks. I'm very interested as well, but then I have a series of questions:

• Can a 90s Leica keep up with a lesser contemporary model in terms of pure "view" (like in optical performance).
• When it comes to build quality, one would assume that a Leica was made to higher standards that some current binoculars that offer a great view but a so-so build quality (in terms of lousy focus wheels, eyecups/rubber armour that fail in a few months/years of uses, etc.). So it remains an open question whether a device made 26 years ago will be a better investment than one made last year.

So I'm really looking forward to what some users with first hand experience have to say.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Gary Hawkins has published a small very informative booklet on the production of Leitz-Leica compacts (with serial numbers):
- in 1975 the series 8x20 C and 10x22C came into production.. It was updated in 1983 while the 10x22C was replaced by the 10x25. The new versions were now fitted with pull-up eyecup sleeves. The new series was designated BC. The new leather finished BC range became also available in a choice of black or green rubber armour called BCA. This range would stay in production until 1996. In1992 two new compacts were launced especially for the USA: a 7x20B and a 9x25B.
Today the 8x20 and 10x25 Ultravid binoculars are the flagship Leica compacts . In 1977 production began in Portugal.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[MiddleRiver]

I am at this moment looking at my bought-new green 147xxx 8x20.
This morning i took them outside and compared to 7x35 retro.
I wear eyeglasses.

Mine are showing a little 'stuff' inside (I'm a little OCD and studied them recently with a light and jeweler's loupe). In the next day or so they'll go back to Leica and I'll decide - based on estimate - whether I'll leave as-is or refurb. Has dust finally intruded? flaking of some sort? It's not much but I want them 'right'. They are approaching 30 years old so I'm not complaining.

The view is excellent and crisp. The hinges are still tight. Focus wheel maybe a little stiff - dunno if it's old grease? Ergos are excellent (for a tiny bino) as I can reach the focus wheel with thumb on bottom. The exposed top is a little 'flush' and a two fingered grip on wheel feels better/faster. Eyecups only have two positions in/out which is one possible flaw. I suppose a user could tweak with an o-ring or something. I use them fully inserted and in typ Leica style, they are very close to lens suface but recessed enough to be protected. They came on a little string for a strap which I almost changed and at first thought 'that's crap'. Later I realized they are so light that it's brilliant design. When folded the string wraps around hinge, taking up virtually no space, and permitting otherwise tight fit in case. Any sort of 'real' strap would be way overkill. I have travelled with these in my jacket - totally unobtrusive, but ready if needed.

There is no contest against the 7x35 and glasses aggravates the bit of 'tunnel view'. The 7's are immersive and pop in 3d. The 8x20 are a little more like looking at the view in a 35mm slide viewer or something - you are looking AT it and not IN it. I also have to be careful with IPD setting and eye placement. I would never want them as my primary birding/nature binos. That said, my wife (does not wear glasses) recently used them over course of a couple of weeks travelling in AK, often on ferries etc. and never complained when looking at wildlife - bears, whales, etc. And of course she HAD them on her almost all the time. Standard size binos would have often been left behind.

Overall, I think they are superb, tho of course limited by size and EP figures. They have travelled extensively with me and where thy really shine is in being so utterly tiny. I have a small case-logic case that had ridden on my backpack strap, pocket, shoulder bag... and gone places where a larger bino just wouldn't cut it (downtown Port au Prince, 18k ft Himalayas, boat rides in Central America...). They are discreet and light.

The build is Leica. Nothing is broken, peeling off, cracked... The view is slightly warm but natural - i.e. Leica as well.

I'm tempted to 'upgrade' them with UV 8x20 only because I DID see a diff between 8x42 Trinnie and 8x42 UV, so I assume the 8x20 UV's would be nicer as well.

I have not had a chance to try the 'competition' and I hear they are superb. But based on form factor they have not tempted me. I'll also admit to being a Leica fan - I've owned lots of Contax, Rollei, Voigtlander, Nikon, etc. film cameras over the years and still would chose to be buried with an M3. My first 7x35b binos set that hook and I've never found reason to switch. My interaction with service in NJ has always been excellent.

YMMV!

 

[yarrellii]

Gary Hawkins has published a small very informative booklet on the production of Leitz-Leica compacts (with serial numbers):
- in 1975 the series 8x20 C and 10x22C came into production.. It was updated in 1983 while the 10x22C was replaced by the 10x25. The new versions were now fitted with pull-up eyecup sleeves. The new series was designated BC. The new leather finished BC range became also available in a choice of black or green rubber armour called BCA. This range would stay in production until 1996. In1992 two new compacts were launced especially for the USA: a 7x20B and a 9x25B.
Today the 8x20 and 10x25 Ultravid binoculars are the flagship Leica compacts . In 1977 production began in Portugal.
Gijs van Ginkel

Gijs, thank you very much for your account on the Leica compact binoculars, that's in fact what I find fascinating. The current Trinovid BCA 8x20 (at least on the outside) has been in production at least since 1996, and it's still on sale...



So that's more than 25 years of product life. I think that few roof binoculars can match this accolade (Porros are different, the Habicht is a champion of longevity in a brand's catalogue).
When in comes to full-size roofs, what was Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski offering in 1996? I find it mind-blowing that the same design has stood the test of time in such a way. But, on the other hand, this makes me very curious about the difference in performance between a 1996 Trinovid BCA and a 2020 (there's currently a thread emphasizing just how good these are).
That 7x20 for the US market is something I got really interested in the moment I first read about it, but unfortunatelly it seems to be a little hard to find.

 

[yarrellii]

I am at this moment looking at my bought-new green 147xxx 8x20.
This morning i took them outside and compared to 7x35 retro.
I wear eyeglasses.

Mine are showing a little 'stuff' inside (I'm a little OCD and studied them recently with a light and jeweler's loupe). In the next day or so they'll go back to Leica and I'll decide - based on estimate - whether I'll leave as-is or refurb. Has dust finally intruded? flaking of some sort? It's not much but I want them 'right'. They are approaching 30 years old so I'm not complaining.

The view is excellent and crisp. The hinges are still tight. Focus wheel maybe a little stiff - dunno if it's old grease? Ergos are excellent (for a tiny bino) as I can reach the focus wheel with thumb on bottom. The exposed top is a little 'flush' and a two fingered grip on wheel feels better/faster. Eyecups only have two positions in/out which is one possible flaw. I suppose a user could tweak with an o-ring or something. I use them fully inserted and in typ Leica style, they are very close to lens suface but recessed enough to be protected. They came on a little string for a strap which I almost changed and at first thought 'that's crap'. Later I realized they are so light that it's brilliant design. When folded the string wraps around hinge, taking up virtually no space, and permitting otherwise tight fit in case. Any sort of 'real' strap would be way overkill. I have travelled with these in my jacket - totally unobtrusive, but ready if needed.

There is no contest against the 7x35 and glasses aggravates the bit of 'tunnel view'. The 7's are immersive and pop in 3d. The 8x20 are a little more like looking at the view in a 35mm slide viewer or something - you are looking AT it and not IN it. I also have to be careful with IPD setting and eye placement. I would never want them as my primary birding/nature binos. That said, my wife (does not wear glasses) recently used them over course of a couple of weeks travelling in AK, often on ferries etc. and never complained when looking at wildlife - bears, whales, etc. And of course she HAD them on her almost all the time. Standard size binos would have often been left behind.

Overall, I think they are superb, tho of course limited by size and EP figures. They have travelled extensively with me and where thy really shine is in being so utterly tiny. I have a small case-logic case that had ridden on my backpack strap, pocket, shoulder bag... and gone places where a larger bino just wouldn't cut it (downtown Port au Prince, 18k ft Himalayas, boat rides in Central America...). They are discreet and light.

The build is Leica. Nothing is broken, peeling off, cracked... The view is slightly warm but natural - i.e. Leica as well.

I'm tempted to 'upgrade' them with UV 8x20 only because I DID see a diff between 8x42 Trinnie and 8x42 UV, so I assume the 8x20 UV's would be nicer as well.

I have not had a chance to try the 'competition' and I hear they are superb. But based on form factor they have not tempted me. I'll also admit to being a Leica fan - I've owned lots of Contax, Rollei, Voigtlander, Nikon, etc. film cameras over the years and still would chose to be buried with an M3. My first 7x35b binos set that hook and I've never found reason to switch. My interaction with service in NJ has always been excellent.

YMMV!

This is really interesting, as a first hand honest account, I'm grateful for that. It seems that your unit 147xxx can be a little newer, (2 - 3 years? than mine), maybe on the verge of the new decade/century.
What you say about Leica build quality is one of the reasons I'm interested in this particular model.

 

[Mike F]

......rubber armour called BCA. This range would stay in production until 1996.

These are still in production, surely. No?

 

[Loud Green Man]

Does the Op require real-time or back-dated data?

LGM

 

[yarrellii]

These are still in production, surely. No?

I think that's the previous generation. The one I'm referring to, coming from the mid nineties, is still on sale, so I guess in production. Leica website right now:

 

[yarrellii]

Does the Op require real-time or back-dated data?

LGM

My question was how does it compare with current 8x20 binoculars. Is it terribly dim? Does it lack the sparkle of the usual view in nice contemporary binoculars because (I'm guessing) it lacks dielectric coatings or, quite opposite, is the image still very nice nowadays? So, not interested in "how good" it was back in 1996, but what do you see/feel/think when you use them today, having tried other contemporary binoculars.

As an example, I've been recently surprised (very pleasantly) by a Nikon A Gold Sentinel 7x35 that is even older than the 1996 Trinovid BCA I'm referring to. The view through that Nikon is really breathtaking. Yes, the image is a little less bright and more yellow than my Nikon EII 8x30, but it's really very sharp, sharper than a current Nikon Action EX, and the view is simply something to behold. I'd recommend them to anyone who can live with its quirks (it's a porro, it's not water-dustproof, the focus is not the fastest, it does not have twist-up eyecups, etc.). Something like this.

On the other hand, I've used "old glories", only to discover that sometimes, as they say, you should not meet your heroes. I can think of a minty 8x30 Zeiss Jenoptem I bought with great expectations, only to discover that my 8x30 Kowa YF offered a much pleasing view to my eyes, while the image and the ergonomics of the Zeiss had simply been surpassed by the Kowa (well, that's my opinion, at least). So, if someone asked me about buying a CZJ 8x30 Jenoptem... well, I'd probably tell them to get a 8x30 Kowa or a 8x32 Vortex Diamondback HD (yes, I know, you can lapidate me now ).

 

[Mike F]

@yarrellii, I'm still somewhat confused by Gijs post - he seems to be saying the the rubber armoured BCA's were made until 1996; 'rubber armour called BCA. This range would stay in production until 1996'. Was there a previous rubber armoured BCA pre '96, and if so how did it differ from the ones still in production?

However, wherever the confusion lies (quite possibly with me!) the fact is that, as you say, the current BCA's have been in production since 1996. I have a 10x25 which I bought in the mid-late nineties which I presume is (the same as) a current production model. A few years ago I had it checked a re-collimated (after a drop) by Leica Mayfair (for free) and had the opportunity to compare them directly to a new 10x25 UVBR which I was considering upgrading to. There was a noticeable difference in favour of the UV, but the difference really wasn't night and day.

I've used my 10x25 BCA's for the last 25 years and have loved them to bits and they still look like new(!) in fact they were my only binocular until about five years ago. It could just have been a matter of familiarity and the lack of comparison to anything bigger and better, but I never once felt that they were small and fiddly or had an uncomfortable view. The focus wheel is small and perhaps somewhat stiff, but easy to use and precise. They are ultra compact and fold up small enough for almost ant pocket. My only impression, and that of those friends who tried them, some of whom had full size (but not alpha) binoculars, is that they where/are clear and sharp with good colour rendition. Times and my financial situation moved on and now I have a wonderful (if relatively small) collection of Leica's, including a 10x42 Noctivid and 7x42 UVHD+, and I have to say that I still get as much enjoyment (and nearly as much use) out of the 10x25 BCA's as ever. Highly recommended.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

MikeF, post 12,
All my quotes are from Gary Hawkins book from 2007 called "NOVELTIES, The story of the Leica Trinovid".
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[yarrellii]

@Mike F Yes, I think there was a previous BCA, have a look. Maybe this is the model that was produced up until 1996. I remember reading a list of all the models in a Leica database, the link is in a thread here in BF.

This is the old BCA, while the one I'm referring to (I posted a picture in the OP) is aesthetically the same as the one currently on sale (as per picture on post #6).

I found a thread from last year (I see you were around ) that somehow tries to explain the different timeline of the 8x20 BC/BCA. It's here:

The three Trinovids battle

When we refer about the compact Trinovid series we have to refer to exactly which model we are referring to, because they are very different optically due to the improvements of the anti-reflection layers over the years. It's like some old Swarovski models: with or without Swarodur coating. All...

www.birdforum.net

In fact, this is one of the reasons I'm asking, to inquire specifically about the performance of the earlier models of the current 8x20 BCA incarnation according to "contemporary eyes" (eyes that have used some of the latest offers).

 

[Mike F]

Yes! Sorry, I’d forgotten about that thread and so have probably been repeating myself! I hope you get the information you’re looking for!

 

[yarrellii]

@Mike F That's alright There's so much content in this forum that I sometimes discover myself reading something that sounds familiar... only to discover that I wrote it a while ago The BC/BCA lineage is really long and tricky to track.

 

[Mike F]

Glad it’s not just me! 😂

 

[NDhunter]

I have the Trinovid 8x20 BCA, and it is a good binocular, I find the 8x25 Zeiss Terra to be another level up, especially in comfort and ease of
view. Bigger is better in this case, a small 8x20 is very fiddly in use.
Jerry

 

[Trinovid]

...one of the reasons I'm asking, to inquire specifically about the performance of the earlier models of the current 8x20 BCA incarnation according to "contemporary eyes" (eyes that have used some of the latest offers).

To the best of my understanding the newer Trinovid with Leica in the center has benefited the most in terms of better coatings, and hence, better view.

 

[yarrellii]

I have the Trinovid 8x20 BCA, and it is a good binocular, I find the 8x25 Zeiss Terra to be another level up, especially in comfort and ease of
view. Bigger is better in this case, a small 8x20 is very fiddly in use.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry, this is really helpful. You wouldn't know by any chance the year of manufacture of your unit (or an estimated guess according to the serial numbers I quoted on the first post).

By the way, since you have both, what kind of days would you choose one above the other?
Thanks!