Where's all the adult male Hen Harriers? (1 Viewer)

[wolfbirder]

...............90% of the reports refer to ringtails , plus a few sub-adult males. I know there are one or two reported but even the traditional sites like Wicken Fen seem to be devoid of the beautiful 'greys'.

Am I reading too much into this? Perhaps they are wintering at unusual sites this year. Or have the males become worryingly scarce in general?

Any thoughts anyone?

 

[mike from ebbw]

In contrast we seem to have had more sightings of adult males than ringtails around here.Saying that though it could very well be the same bird moving around but some of the sites are a good few miles apart.

 

[Perry Grin]

...............90% of the reports refer to ringtails , plus a few sub-adult males. I know there are one or two reported but even the traditional sites like Wicken Fen seem to be devoid of the beautiful 'greys'.

Am I reading too much into this? Perhaps they are wintering at unusual sites this year. Or have the males become worryingly scarce in general?

Any thoughts anyone?

We get occasional males on the marshes at North Kent but 'plenty' of ringtails. I always assumed this was because the males didn't migrate as far what with having territories to defend/find and all. Could that be the case?

 

[rob stoff]

yes, it is, as in many species adult males will try to stay near their breeding areas if possible while females and youngsters migrate further. Many grey Hen harriers seen away from breeding areas are second-years anyway.

Rob

 

[wolfbirder]

Cheers for the insight - certainly seems less this year tho, I have seen full adult males at Wicken but guess this does explain it.

 

[John Cantelo]

I think it needs to be reiterated that the term 'ringtail' was coined to include females and immature males. Inevitably this means that 'ringtails' will always outnumber adult males since there will always be more female & young birds (of both sexes) about. I seem to recall speculation that, since males are smaller than females, they tend to winter & hunt over different habitats. Specifically that you get more males hunting over heathland than marshland (where prey species tend to be larger). Male vs female raptors tend target a slightly different range of prey; partly because females are simply bigger, but also it allows a denser population of any one BoP as pairs are not competing directly with one another,

John

 

[chris@cbharrier]

Hi all, up here in South West Scotland ,our house overlooks Caresgowan moss we see Hen Harriers in winter hunting the rough pasture from the study window mainly smokey grey males.The population is much lower than many years ago due to various factors, we no longer get the big roosts that were a big attraction up here, last week we saw one take the tail end charlie from a flock of Meadow pip
Chris

 

[joannec]

I think it needs to be reiterated that the term 'ringtail' was coined to include females and immature males. Inevitably this means that 'ringtails' will always outnumber adult males since there will always be more female & young birds (of both sexes) about.

John

I agree with this, especially given that it takes, I think, three years for male HHs to get their fully adult plumage.

Having said that, personally I've been lucky this winter and seen 3 male HHs at two different locations and I think 4 ring tails.

Joanne

 

[Scooby2]

I'm lucky enough to have a Hen Harrier roost in some scrub on the hill opposite. I find counting them to be a bit tricky as they settle, then move, all the time but when disturbed by a farmer late one evening there were twelve individuals aloft...two of which were grey males.
On another note 10mins drive in the opposite direction there's a Starling roost. I have no idea how to go about estimating the numbers but it must be in the 100,000's minus three of four every night as the Sparrowhawks dive into the bushes for their supper.
I'm really enjoying these winter evenings.

 

[wolfbirder]

Wow !! Chris & Scooby especially you are extremely lucky, altho I know that it is hard to really appreciate things when they are on ya doorstep.

I always try to get to the best 'roost' somewhere around the midlands a few times. Wicken fen in Cambs can be superb. Get views sometimes down to 20 meters when they come in to roost if they choose a patch of grass near Tower Hide. May go to Swallow Moss (Staffs Moorlands) later today as a few hen harriers have been reported to roost there this year. Whereas Wicken, and my other favourate Parkgate on the Dee Estuary have not been so productive at all this winter from reports I have seen to date.

Interesting info about males generally staying near breeding sites in winter - i have watched and adored this species for a number of years, but my knowledge is sadly lacking so I appreciate these little bits of gen.

 

[robinm]

Hi Scooby2,

A warm welcome to BirdForum from all the Moderators and Admin. Glad to have you on board :t:

Sounds great - do you do B&B

 

[barontan2418]

Interesting info about males generally staying near breeding sites in winter - i have watched and adored this species for a number of years, but my knowledge is sadly lacking so I appreciate these little bits of gen.

wolfbirder

In my experience it's the females which are more likely to remain on and around the high moors over winter. Prey items are at a premium and the female has the ability to take larger birds (won't say which species) Males are more likely to head for lower ground where smaller prey items are more abundant. Hopefully they meet up again around Feb/March back on the moors, ofter different moors and different pairs.

 

[wolfbirder]

Erm??? Scratches head even more. Actually i have to say that was my thought, the males have traditional winter roosts sites such as Wicken that are milder inland locations altho I dont know where the Wicken birds, for example, would have come from (think I have even heard it suggested Holland), perhaps the winter has not been so harsh this year or perhaps the abundance of prey has kept them closer to their traditional breeding sites.

Who knows eh!

 

[harrier olley]

It is certainly without doubt that the majority of birds noted over the high pennines during the winter will be females for the exact reason Mick Baron pointed out as they can take larger prey, most of the food availability for male harriers such as small birds and to an extent small mammals are scarce or completely absent from the moorlands. Adult males and ringtails will be in more evidence on lower ground during the winter especially where a rich food area is available and this would account for low numbers of birds even at some traditional sites such as at Wicken its all down to food availability.

One important food related piece of evidence that i have gleaned working on the harrier project certainly not new evidence across the UK, is that when adult males are back on territory (spring) on the pennines they are very relient on small birds and especially mammals most of this to feed a female getting her in condition for breeding. Hen Harriers certainly know where to be at the right time for dinner.

 

[NickPatel92]

I've only seen 3 Hen harriers this Winter, and they have been all Males, yet they were all on Moorland in Winter.

 

[wolfbirder]

Cheers for that intersting post Olly, I presume then that due to the absence or shortage of birds at wicken (low ground), there must be a relative abundance this year in the hills.

Just been to Swallow Moss, enjoyed a cracking afternoon with 4 Hen Harriers in the roost including a stunning 3rd or 4th cy full male. Well chuffed as it showed magnificently for about an hour.

 

[martin kitching]

I agree with this, especially given that it takes, I think, three years for male HHs to get their fully adult plumage.

Slightly over 2 years; a male HH in 3cy autumn should be indistinguishable from other adult male HH although, if any secondaries are retained during a moult then there will be feathers of different generations in the wing, possibly suggestive of an immature bird.

cheers
martin

 

[wolfbirder]

I thought therer was a subtle variation in mantle colour too. The bird yesterday had a darker slightly patchier grey mantle but with no rufous tones in. I thought this was an indicator of a young adult.

 

[harrier olley]

Hi Nick, its certainly been an interesting winter for hen harries good numbers in Durham and Northumberland lowland sites and pennines with a few adult males, your sightings are certainly not unusual as we can certainly say its been a very mild winter agian its obvious that the males can cope in the uplands in winter without any snow covering.

 

[martin kitching]

A 2cy/3cy male should have a blotchy brown/grey mantle, the appearance of which will depend on the extent of feather replacement. A 3cy/4cy male should have a uniformly grey mantle.

edit to add: Of course, depending on the extent of wear/bleaching, the mantle of an adult male may be shades of grey - should still be all grey though. So, a patchy grey mantle would be an indicator of active body moult. HH cannot be aged as anything other than adult after 3cy Sep/Oct

cheers
martin

I thought therer was a subtle variation in mantle colour too. The bird yesterday had a darker slightly patchier grey mantle but with no rufous tones in. I thought this was an indicator of a young adult.