Why do Peregrines take racers by preference? (2 Viewers)

[saluki]

I think that may have been Ian's point Steve - a point with which I would agree. I know from the number of ringed pigeons I used to shoot that had 'gone feral' (and please don't anyone accuse me of shooting racers, racers from a loft behave in a totally different manner than ferals, it is quite easy to differentiate between the two). These were probably young birds that had simply decided not to return to the loft and therefore, to all intents and purposes, were simply feral pigeons with rings on their legs. If, however, Peregrines had killed these birds and fed them to their young for instance, any analysis of prey content at a nesting site would, I pressume, mark them down as racing pigeons.

saluki

 

[The Tom]

Be carefull here in case anyone is unaware it is illegal to shoot racing pigeons .Pray tell how it is possible to tell the differance between racing pigeons that are fielding (usually when feeding their young ) and rung pigeons that have gone feral .

 

[saluki]

Why do I bother . . .

What did I say Tom? I'll remind you . . .

"and please don't anyone accuse me of shooting racers, racers from a loft behave in a totally different manner than ferals, it is quite easy to differentiate between the two"
If you can't tell the difference in the general 'jizz' of a feral and a racer, and the way in which they respond when coming into decoys, then I suggest you get out into the field and learn.

saluki

 

[The Tom]

My my I seem to have hit a nerve .I certainly did not accuse anyone of shooting racing pigeons . Just hope your method of recognition is 100% accurate .By the way did you inform the owners of these unfortunate birds of their fate just to reasure youreself of your abilities .By the way I do go down to the fields quite regularly to watch and enjoy all of Gods creatures but certainly not to blow them to pieces .

 

[saluki]

"My my I seem to have hit a nerve".

Somehow, I doubt it Tom . . .

"I certainly did not accuse anyone of shooting racing pigeons. Just hope your method of recognition is 100% accurate .By the way did you inform the owners of these unfortunate birds of their fate just to reasure youreself of your abilities .By the way I do go down to the fields quite regularly to watch and enjoy all of Gods creatures but certainly not to blow them to pieces".

I'll make it easy for you Tom:

Every year a certain percentage of young racers disappear. Some are killed by accident, some by raptors, etc. Some aren't killed at all, but choose to join up with the local feral pigeons. Go to any large town that has a population of ferals and you will note a percentage that carry rings. Do you think these birds ever go back to their original lofts? Do you think the owners want back a bird that would quite obviously rather stay with it's feral bretheren than home? These bird's behaviour is indistinguishable from that of a feral pigeon simply because, to all intents and purposes, they are simply ferals wearing rings - do you consider Ian's example of a ringed bird that had been with a flock of ferals for five years as really being a racer?? It had probably never raced in it's life!

Now, I used the example of shooting ferals with rings on as an example to illustrate a point that Ian made - for no other reason. If you object to me hunting (and I haven't fired a gun for two years, so you've got that wrong too) then so be it - that's your problem, not mine. But please don't pursue your animal rights agenda on a forum dedicated to birds.

saluki

 

[Anthony Morton]

It seems to me that the only way for shooters to avoid the risk of mistaken identity between racing pigeons and feral pigeons is to look on both as ladies. In other words ...

LEAVE THE 'MARRIED' ONES WEARING RINGS ALONE!

Anthony

 

[Screech]

Flying racing birds over the west course in NJ, USA 100-500 miles most owners figured on the loss of about 50 % of young birds bred.
No one really knows how or why birds do not return to their loft. I believe accidents account for the majority. Watching racing birds fly next to a highway I have on more than one occassion seen birds following the leaders out front smash into wire fences where the leading birds flew over. Many birds are injured and end their race there.
I'm sure pole sitting raptors harvest some of these and fox, cats, dogs the rest. Having a loft in a raptors territory will keep those birds active; the racers will be in great condition come race season! ;o)

 

[Nightranger]

If a 'racer' is at liberty for at least five years and in a feral flock then surely it is a 'feral' and no longer a 'racer'. isn't it?

Steve

As Saluki has pointed out, that was my point yet I suspect some (not ALL note) racing people would make this out as a case against the peregrine. Unfortunately, it is sometimes the most vocal and ill-uinformed members of any group of people that get publicity and give the sport a bad name. It is like the example of over-bagging at pheasant shoots. Game rearing and shooting is a superb conservation tool even if some people find the subject morally distasteful (I don't shoot BTW). Over-bagging (shooting too many birds and burying the excess) hands the baton to the moralists despite there being nothing wrong with the activity over all. Similarly, pigeon racing is an honourable sport right up to the point when Mr Angry writes to his local newspaper calling for "the RSPB to remove its support of raptors". It creates divisions that would not normally exist and misses the point that flying racers is creating a natural imbalance. Saluki has also mentioned that some people are not terribly anxious to get lost birds back because they are essentially useless, which belies the idea of having a caring nature. This is not true of all owners but I have heard quite a few angry tales of people who have a racer in their garden and the owner is uninterested. Statistically, this number (from the evidence I have to hand) is considerably greater than the number of racers taken by raptors yet irresponsible people will continue to make the point. Let me say for the record that I have every sympathy with someone who has a loft in West Wales (for example) where there is a greater chance of encountering peregrines. Nevertheless, if someone puts plenty of food out then it is inevitable that something will come to call whether it be large flocks of racers or a dozen chaffinches on the bird table. Sadly, we are conditioned to see predation as something that "happens somewhere else" here in the UK because we don't see lions chasing down wildebeeste on the local football field. This means that some people are genuinely shocked when it happens in front of them and this makes these people impressionable when it comes to people making the case for raptor culls.

 

[The Tom]

"My my I seem to have hit a nerve".

Somehow, I doubt it Tom . . .

"I certainly did not accuse anyone of shooting racing pigeons. Just hope your method of recognition is 100% accurate .By the way did you inform the owners of these unfortunate birds of their fate just to reasure youreself of your abilities .By the way I do go down to the fields quite regularly to watch and enjoy all of Gods creatures but certainly not to blow them to pieces".

I'll make it easy for you Tom:

Every year a certain percentage of young racers disappear. Some are killed by accident, some by raptors, etc. Some aren't killed at all, but choose to join up with the local feral pigeons. Go to any large town that has a population of ferals and you will note a percentage that carry rings. Do you think these birds ever go back to their original lofts? Do you think the owners want back a bird that would quite obviously rather stay with it's feral bretheren than home? These bird's behaviour is indistinguishable from that of a feral pigeon simply because, to all intents and purposes, they are simply ferals wearing rings - do you consider Ian's example of a ringed bird that had been with a flock of ferals for five years as really being a racer?? It had probably never raced in it's life!

Now, I used the example of shooting ferals with rings on as an example to illustrate a point that Ian made - for no other reason. If you object to me hunting (and I haven't fired a gun for two years, so you've got that wrong too) then so be it - that's your problem, not mine. But please don't pursue your animal rights agenda on a forum dedicated to birds.

saluki

Saluki
Just to put the record straight I do not have an animal rights agenda . Each to his own is my outlook . However I do have an opinion and will express it .
Your first point re young bird losses is a correct one .
I think however that you vastly over estimate the number of racers that go feral . As you suggest checking feral flocks in towns and cities does give a good indication and you will find that if you count the number of ringed birds in most towns and cities it is a very small percentage , in fact probably the biggest flock of ferals in the UK is in London and last time I was in the capitol(about two years ago) there were in fact none .Probably the only exception to this rule is seaside towns which for some reason do seem to have a higher percentage (perhaps its the sea air)
Most racers that go awol if they have not been killed return after a week or two .
As for Ians point about the five year old feral , I dont think it would have been possible for a pigeon to survive on the streets for that long as the average life expectancy of a feral is two to three years . more likely is that it was an escaped stock bird that had never been flown out or maybe it was just having a mid life crisis(joke)
Ians point though is a good one and shows the ammount of mistrust that is about.
Maybe a good idea would be to report all rings taken from nest sites and from pigeons that had been shot , these figures could then be given and would show the actual predation of racers and would stop the distrust that exists .
Most fanciers do like to know the fate of their aerial athletes and to learn that one of your team has been taken by a hawk will at least tell of its fate .
Any one wishing to report a pigeon alive or dead can do so through the RPRA website www.rpra.org

 

[Anthony Morton]

Maybe a good idea would be to report all rings taken from nest sites and from pigeons that had been shot, these figures could then be given and would show the actual predation of racers and would stop the distrust that exists.

I believe 'The Tom' has made a number of valid points in his posting - and none more so than this one. Perhaps the RSPB's Ian Peters could persuade his colleagues to e-mail a list of all racing pigeon ring numbers retrieved from raptor nesting sites to the Royal Pigeon Racing Association on a regular (monthly?) basis, thereby enabling it to advise the registered owner that his pigeon will not be coming home.

 

[Jane Turner]

Jane - a slightly pedantic point but you said that there was (a close to) 1 in 3 success rate against racers whereas the ratio was 15 in 30 for ferals. 15 in 30 = 1 in 2 and that makes the peregrine strategy overall more successful with ferals.

It was 1in 3 against all pigeons and Doves, 50% against Feral Rocks including racers.