Why no Woodpeckers in Ireland (2 Viewers)

[pianoman]

Finally managed to track down my copy of Gordon D'Arcy's Ireland's Lost Birds

A lovely book with fascinating information and some fine steel pen and scraperboard drawings by the author. I hope he doesn't mind me paraphrasing some points from the book.

I must have been wrong about GSW having long gone by the 17th C. D'Arcy quotes Philip O'Sullivan Beare's Zoilomastix from about 1625:

'The woodpecker is very common in Ireland. A bird of several colours, white, black, red, beautiful bluish, with a longish tail, strong beak and hooked nails with which it can hollow out trees....'

Despite the strange mention of "Beautiful bluish" (perhaps a mistranslation from his Latin?) he couldn't be talking about much else.

Between this time and the 19th C, by which time birds were better documented but the GSW was a rare visitor to Ireland, it's hard to trace its history, partly because of the difficulty in interpreting the Gaelic names Snag, Snag Darach and Snag Breac any of which could refer to GSW, Treecreeper or even Magpie. "Snag Breac" may have been transferred from GSW to Magpie as the former decreased and the latter increased.

Even Lesser Spotted was almost certainly here in extremely local relict populations in a few locations up to the mid 19th C.

Another nugget points out that those records (of Great) that do occur these days are probably Scandanavian birds, which are more mobile than British ones, and are subject to irruptions often linked to those of Waxwings.

There's lots of fascinating stuff covering Bittern, Crane, Goshawk, both kites, both eagles, Black-necked Grebe, Woodlark, Capercaillie, Spotted Crake, all of which were common in O'Sullivan Beare's time.

cheers

Andrew

 

[KnockerNorton]

Such sources are not massively reliable, although interesting. You don't know where he was getting his information from, or exactly where (did he visit the whole country, or build an impression from his own neighbourhood and a few letters from neighbouring bigwigs?). It's looking good, but it's not solid evidence and must be viewed with caution. They could all have been localised relict populations cf Crested Tit in Scotland.

 

[pianoman]

Such sources are not massively reliable, although interesting. You don't know where he was getting his information from, or exactly where (did he visit the whole country, or build an impression from his own neighbourhood and a few letters from neighbouring bigwigs?). It's looking good, but it's not solid evidence and must be viewed with caution. They could all have been localised relict populations cf Crested Tit in Scotland.

Indeed, he was quite a character it seems, as was his entire dynasty (his uncle was known as the "Last Prince of Ireland", ie the last native nobleman to hold onto his ancestral lands from the Elizabethans). He was born and spent his early years in West Cork, and died in Spain while serving in the Spanish Navy. It's not known whether Zoilomastix was written in Spain or Ireland, but D'Arcy does say that it seems clear he was writing from first-hand experience, and he also gives the Irish names of the birds he describes.

About a century later, in 1739, John K'eogh, in Zoologica Medicalis Hibernae, mentions "Woodpecker" and gives his phonetic interpretation of the Irish name, "Snagurack" and mentions the Latin collective "Merops, Apiastra, Melifuga" ! I suppose taxonomy wasn't such an exact science then, but it adds to the tantalising mystery of not knowing for certain whether a bird as familiar as GSW was present or not!

 

[Sancho]

Indeed, he was quite a character it seems, as was his entire dynasty (his uncle was known as the "Last Prince of Ireland", ie the last native nobleman to hold onto his ancestral lands from the Elizabethans). He was born and spent his early years in West Cork, and died in Spain while serving in the Spanish Navy. It's not known whether Zoilomastix was written in Spain or Ireland, but D'Arcy does say that it seems clear he was writing from first-hand experience, and he also gives the Irish names of the birds he describes.

About a century later, in 1739, John K'eogh, in Zoologica Medicalis Hibernae, mentions "Woodpecker" and gives his phonetic interpretation of the Irish name, "Snagurack" and mentions the Latin collective "Merops, Apiastra, Melifuga" ! I suppose taxonomy wasn't such an exact science then, but it adds to the tantalising mystery of not knowing for certain whether a bird as familiar as GSW was present or not!

Thanks, Pianoman. The mystery deepens. Bizarre that O´Sullivan Beare goes into such detail about Woodpeckers but other references, in popular literature for example, are lacking. But perfectly plausible that the Irish name transferred over to Magpie....the same happened with the English name here for Crane. (I think Giraldus Cambrensis wrote of Cranes in Ireland....mind you most of what he wrote was dubious to say the least.) Any chance that O´Sullivan Beare´s motives were political, i.e. maybe he was trying to "Write Up" the wonders of Irish avifauna to impress his Spanish allies (not that the mere existence of GSW would have prompted another invasion attempt....and sorry for wandering off-topic again, I´m just wondering about O´SB´s credentials.)

 

[pianoman]

Yes, Giraldus was apt to get carried away all right! And O'Sullivan Beare mixed a fair bit of lore and fable in with his descriptions too. Though I don't think there's any doubt that Cranes were once common here. The bones of several were recovered from Wood Quay. There are more mysteries, such as the identity of the "Great Irish Owl" referred to by several writers during the Tudor period.

 

[Sancho]

Yes, Giraldus was apt to get carried away all right! And O'Sullivan Beare mixed a fair bit of lore and fable in with his descriptions too. Though I don't think there's any doubt that Cranes were once common here. The bones of several were recovered from Wood Quay. There are more mysteries, such as the identity of the "Great Irish Owl" referred to by several writers during the Tudor period.

The characters seem to have been more colourful than the birds! It´s so frustrating. What the hell were they actually talking about? What I wouldn´t do for a time machine......

 

[RKell1]

Thanks stevensi, apparently that´s the third year in a row that GSW has appeared at Howth. Do you suppose it´s the same bird? And if so, what could be the attraction of Howth? Weird.

Well Deerpark is ideal habitat, plenty of mature trees and undisturbed areas, especially around the back plus the added bonus of large well planted gardens locally...It would be nice to get a satellite tracking device on it!

 

[KnockerNorton]

...It would be nice to get a satellite tracking device on it!

It's not as simple as that! For a bird that size, it would have to be a radio-tag. So if you fancy a). trying to catch it, then b). following it around for a few weeks with an antenna and hurdling fences as you go....rather you than me!

 

[Vogeljung]

Howth and GSW's are now becoming synonymous. Is this the same woody or is it a particularly woodpecker-friendly locale? Bizarre, as I thought up here in Donegal we'd be in a perfect position for Scandinavian irrupters...

 

[stevensi]

Howth and GSW's are now becoming synonymous. Is this the same woody or is it a particularly woodpecker-friendly locale? Bizarre, as I thought up here in Donegal we'd be in a perfect position for Scandinavian irrupters...

It is unusual alright although on the Bird Watch Ireland website there was a reported sighting of a GSW at Tollymore Forest in Co Down but that was in August....maybe a visitor from Sacandinivia?

 

[Sancho]

I had intended to go into the Natural History Museum in Dublin to see if any of the curators there could throw some light on the "Woodpecker History Mystery" (they´re really helpful in there, and love to look for info for you...a change for them, I suppose, than dealing with hordes of screaming kids running around). However, I just heard on the radio yesterday that the Museum, subsequent to the collapsing stair event last July, is now to be closed for 2 years for complete refurbishment!!! I am devastated...not only ´cos of the Woodpecker thing, but it´s a great place to take the kids on a nature-related outing (beats the hell out of the zoo....)

 

[pianoman]

Spent far too little time in there when it was open - strange how you visit museums in other towns when on holiday but get blasé about your own.

 

[Nightranger]

I was surprised to know that there are no Woodpeckers in Ireland, does anyone have any answers for why this should be. While in Australia recently I was also surprised to find out that there are none there also.

Rod.

Quite a few people have answered this question in various ways but one of the most pertinent answers is that woodpeckers are largely sedentary and do not like crossing open expanses of water. The main clue is in their inefficient dipping flight, which is hardly conducive to long distance movement. There has been a long-time speculation about possible European vagrants to the British Isles but the question should be 'is LGRE's middle spotted record validated by the fact that GSWs make genuine juvenile dispersals to the western isles of Scotland and Northern Ireland?' The truth seems to be somewhat short of this because it is clear that some woodpeckers could make a 26 mile (but more likely, 100 mile) sea crossing yet, are not likely to do so unless the population is particularly healthy.

Ireland does have woodpeckers but they seem to be GSWs for the most part and one picture I saw was a juvenile from NI so breeding is more than likely in the future. Unfortunately, green woodpeckers and LSWs are in decline in the UK (greens, particularly on the edge of their western range) so the only hope is for the dispersing GSWs.

Ian

 

[pianoman]

Thanks Ian, the thought that woodpeckers might re-colonise naturally given the right habitat management is a very cheering one indeed. Hope it happens while I still have my youth!

 

[chowchilla]

I had no idea that there were no regularly occuring woodpeckers in Ireland. It would be nice to have a few species in Aus too! Here they're replaced by the Black Cockatoos which winkle out grubs from dead trees, but not using long tongues, just their huge bills.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Greens are incresing in the UK. Also, unhealthy populations can also result in movements as thinly-cattered birds attempt to find each other. Also, Woodpeckers as a whole are at the edge of their range in the NW European British Isles. There are many species of woodpecker over the channel, but only 3 in Britain. That is not because there used to be more but they were wiped out (as some are claiming for woodpeckers in Ireland), it's the classic effect of islands and edges of ranges. So looking at woodpeckers in continental Europe and then how they tail off sharply in Britain, is it really surprising that they tail off to zero even further out in Ireland?

Anyway, rumour I heard last week is that Ireland does have breeding Great Spots...

 

[Sancho]

Anyway, rumour I heard last week is that Ireland does have breeding Great Spots...

I´ve heard that maintained in the past, in a "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" fashion, I suppose it´s possible given that they do seem to turn up fairly regularly at the same locations. Suppression of news of a breeding pair or two would be understandable.

 

[pianoman]

Anyway, rumour I heard last week is that Ireland does have breeding Great Spots...

Excellent, Poecile; If you say your source was reliable, I'd be happy just to know we have breeding woodpeckers after all, without needing to know any more

 

[KnockerNorton]

Excellent, Poecile; If you say your source was reliable, I'd be happy just to know we have breeding woodpeckers after all, without needing to know any more

Well my source is reliable, and should be well informed on these things, but only insofar as they described it as a 'rumour' too.

 

[Nightranger]

Well my source is reliable, and should be well informed on these things, but only insofar as they described it as a 'rumour' too.

I think I can back you up on this one, Poecile because I vaguely recall seeing this mentioned before I left the RSPB. As far as I can remember, there was no suppression of the record as such but I seem to recall pre-breeding behaviour was recorded rather than a confirmation of successful breeding. Unfortunately, an awful lot of pieces of information passed through my inbox so I cannot give you a source but I do not recall the information coming from the Belfast office.

Ian