Wood pigeons, large flock (1 Viewer)

[CharleyBird]

Just seen over 100 wood pigeons flying together, 8am N.E England.
Common though they are I usually see them in pairs.
Is this flocking unusual? Thinking they have been disturbed while feeding on nearby farmland?

 

[pppppvvvv]

We get big flocks / movements across the South of England about this time of year. Many thousands, occasionally tens of thousands. It's one of the "highlights" of the birding year in Hampshire.
Many are high up, but depending on conditions we also get low level flocks

 

[JWN Andrewes]

12140 over Cantlop in Shrops a few days ago per RBA. Some of the movements can be quite impressive!

 

[Adey Baker]

Some very big movements recorded yesterday. One site in Wiltshire reported over 66,000 and many other 5-figures around the country included 41,000 flying south at Portland Bill

 

[dantheman]

There is a big migration element to it at this time of year (including from Europe), but yes, they commonly flock together in winter in the hundreds in suitable winter feeding habitat (eg stubble fields).

 

[CharleyBird]

Some very big movements recorded yesterday. One site in Wiltshire reported over 66,000 and many other 5-figures around the country included 41,000 flying south at Portland Bill

Just to be clear, are we talking of thousands of wood pigeons in a flock(!!), or generallyof a count of flocks of various birds flying over during a day?

 

[Xenospiza]

Just to be clear, are we talking of thousands of wood pigeons in a flock(!!), or generallyof a count of flocks of various birds flying over during a day?

These will be multiple flocks, although (where I watch migration) the numbers tend to be quite concentrated, with over half the birds in a single hour.

 

[DMW]

Are these big Woody migrations a relatively recent phenomenon? We get big movements over Jersey at this time of year, but I just don't recall this being a thing 20 years ago.

 

[angusmcoatup]

I haven’t got my copy with me but I seem to remember Ian Wallace writing in one of his books about regularly counting huge flocks of Woodpigeon moving over Primrose Hill in London many years ago. I used to see large numbers myself over Archway and Hampstead Heath.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Are these big Woody migrations a relatively recent phenomenon? We get big movements over Jersey at this time of year, but I just don't recall this being a thing 20 years ago.

Yes its a relatively recent thing at Portland too, movements started in the early 00's (c2003-4) when occasional day counts were in hundreds and they have gradually increased to the impressive passage we see today. This autumn has seen a record year with >150,000 birds moving S/SW from 16 Oct to date. Portland numbers are typically exceeded by several locations in the County but it seems the weather this year has resulted in more birds opting to take this route. Interestingly, Wood Pigeons numbers have increased exponentially as a breeding bird on Portland in the last 50 years (now a ubiquitous garden bird) and young birds ringed by PBO are a good source for French recoveries.

Today finds at home in my flat, 'burnt out' and with neck strain from counting them.

Grahame

 

[DMW]

Yes its a relatively recent thing at Portland too, movements started in the early 00's (c2003-4) when occasional day counts were in hundreds and they have gradually increased to the impressive passage we see today. This autumn has seen a record year with >150,000 birds moving S/SW from 16 Oct to date. Portland numbers are typically exceeded by several locations in the County but it seems the weather this year has resulted in more birds opting to take this route. Interestingly, Wood Pigeons numbers have increased exponentially as a breeding bird on Portland in the last 50 years (now a ubiquitous garden bird) and young birds ringed by PBO are a good source for French recoveries.

Grahame

Thanks, Grahame, this ties in very much with what we are seeing in Jersey and it wouldn't be a surprise if we get some of your birds! The bulk of our migrants pass down the west side of the island, contra migrating thrushes which are much more numerous down our east coast.
I think our biggest year so far was 2021, with over 250,000. We might just be into 6 figures so far this year.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Here's a link to my effort in 2015, from a hill North West of Southampton

Trektellen.org

The hill was private land, but I arranged access. It was quite unique in that it had a clear line of sight right down Southampton Water to Fawley (when the tower was there), and the Isle of Wight.
Plus a good view North up the Test Valley.

From memory, I would guess 99% of the Woodpigeons passed to the South of my location, all heading South West.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Here's a link to my effort in 2015, from a hill North West of Southampton

Trektellen.org

The hill was private land, but I arranged access. It was quite unique in that it had a clear line of sight right down Southampton Water to Fawley (when the tower was there), and the Isle of Wight.
Plus a good view North up the Test Valley.

From memory, I would guess 99% of the Woodpigeons passed to the South of my location, all heading South West.

There was a noticeable concentration of low flying birds following the M27 I guess, perhaps avoiding Southampton/Southampton water.
The higher birds didn't care and were over a broad front.
A Spectacular, but time consuming Autumn!

 

[Farnboro John]

Yes its a relatively recent thing at Portland too, movements started in the early 00's (c2003-4) when occasional day counts were in hundreds and they have gradually increased to the impressive passage we see today. This autumn has seen a record year with >150,000 birds moving S/SW from 16 Oct to date. Portland numbers are typically exceeded by several locations in the County but it seems the weather this year has resulted in more birds opting to take this route. Interestingly, Wood Pigeons numbers have increased exponentially as a breeding bird on Portland in the last 50 years (now a ubiquitous garden bird) and young birds ringed by PBO are a good source for French recoveries.

Today finds at home in my flat, 'burnt out' and with neck strain from counting them.

Grahame

That's very interesting because it's only a few years since we had quite a debate on here about Woodpigeon passage across Britain. One of the facts quoted then was that the average distance from ringing of British Woodpigeon recoveries was less than 5 km - which ultimately was one of the things that made it obvious the big autumn broad front movements are of continental - presumably Fenno-scandian - birds.

It became apparent during the discussion that they are not only seen going out across/along the South coast having crossed our island but seen coming in-off, often at considerable altitude, across the East Coast but not generally dropping down at the coast the way thrushes etc do, instead continuing inland.

So are the Portland breeders presumed to be fall-out from that or a new wave of continental colonisation from the South or what?

John

 

[jogresh]

That's very interesting because it's only a few years since we had quite a debate on here about Woodpigeon passage across Britain. One of the facts quoted then was that the average distance from ringing of British Woodpigeon recoveries was less than 5 km - which ultimately was one of the things that made it obvious the big autumn broad front movements are of continental - presumably Fenno-scandian - birds.

It became apparent during the discussion that they are not only seen going out across/along the South coast having crossed our island but seen coming in-off, often at considerable altitude, across the East Coast but not generally dropping down at the coast the way thrushes etc do, instead continuing inland.

So are the Portland breeders presumed to be fall-out from that or a new wave of continental colonisation from the South or what?

John

Yes I remember that thread, it would be really interesting to have another look at it again. One viewpoint which was made quite firmly was that the movements were of birds bred within the UK (eg Scotland, the Pennines) and subsequently moving south & west, and that we didn't get birds from northern Europe as there was no evidence from the east coast. This came as quite a surprise to me tbh as id always thought that we did. 🤔

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

That's very interesting because it's only a few years since we had quite a debate on here about Woodpigeon passage across Britain. One of the facts quoted then was that the average distance from ringing of British Woodpigeon recoveries was less than 5 km - which ultimately was one of the things that made it obvious the big autumn broad front movements are of continental - presumably Fenno-scandian - birds.

It became apparent during the discussion that they are not only seen going out across/along the South coast having crossed our island but seen coming in-off, often at considerable altitude, across the East Coast but not generally dropping down at the coast the way thrushes etc do, instead continuing inland.

So are the Portland breeders presumed to be fall-out from that or a new wave of continental colonisation from the South or what?

John

BTO data showing UK & Irish recoveries/controls of 67,171 ringed Wood Pigeons up to 2021
Summary of Ringing Totals | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology

For all species data see
Online Ringing and Nest Recording Report

Grahame

 

[pppppvvvv]

Yes I remember that thread, it would be really interesting to have another look at it again. One viewpoint which was made quite firmly was that the movements were of birds bred within the UK (eg Scotland, the Pennines) and subsequently moving south & west, and that we didn't get birds from northern Europe as there was no evidence from the east coast. This came as quite a surprise to me tbh as id always thought that we did. 🤔

I think, even from my limited survey, if they were all Northern GB birds, a large proportion would have been passing me North to South, following the River Test.
The River being a well used flight path for many migrants.
As it happened, not a single Woodpigeon passed North to South. All were East to West.

 

[Xenospiza]

The bulk migration of Scandinavian Wood Pigeons occurs in the southeast of the Low Countries. If they occur in large numbers in the Channel Islands, they must turn west further south.
So based on their direction, they'd never land on the east coast of the UK, only in the south.

 

[Farnboro John]

The bulk migration of Scandinavian Wood Pigeons occurs in the southeast of the Low Countries. If they occur in large numbers in the Channel Islands, they must turn west further south.
So based on their direction, they'd never land on the east coast of the UK, only in the south.

They do come in further North (they are seen) but they are such strong fliers that they don't drop down: obviously numbers roost overnight inland because that's how the big morning broad front flocks and the South Coast groups happen. I suspect this also accounts for the lack of ringing recoveries because they simply aren't present long enough to be shot. Hard to prove absolutely but easy to observe the anonymous birds.

John

 

[Farnboro John]

I can see from the Summary of Ringing Totals why the argument was made that Woodpigeons don't move: the correlation between numbers of them ringed in each county and found in each county looks on inspection to be amazingly close. I wonder if the remarkable records quoted below the table are just that - remarkable - whereas the table appears to show exactly what was claimed: UK woodies as a whole don't move. Of course, correlation does not necessarily equal causation!

I thought I'd have a quick look at whether the shooters produce any temporal bias in the ringing returns by affecting which Woodpigeons get shot, and it seems possible they do. For instance, in Scotland the advice to prospective shooters for Aberdeen shooting holiday packages is spring (April onwards) through summer into autumn but from end of October bad weather means recommendation not to do it. However, that coincides with availability of more expensive shooting packages for pheasant, partridge and grouse, for which the weather is of course the same, so one suspects other motives are at work on commercial shoots at least!

Anyway it means commercially Woodies are preferentially shot from April to October and not when the big movements often happen, in early November. So one would expect a heavy bias in favour of local birds and this is in fact what exists.

This is not of course the totality of Woodpigeon shooting in either Scotland or the UK as a whole as there are many members- and invitational shoots that presumably carry on year-round except on days when they have their own organised pheasant etc shoots: leading to ringing returns suggesting strongly that the country is not a significant wintering area for continental birds (not really a surprise given the observed autumn movements). So are there strong seasonal movements within the UK (I suspect unlikely) or are the odd non-local returns just a random bit of juvenile dispersal? For instance, of the birds shot not in their actual natal county, how many were actually in an adjacent county, potentially only a mile away, rather than making a long-distance movement?

The South Coast-breeding Channel-crossing birds seem to me less explainable in terms of what we know already.

Surprisingly interesting stuff from a species that rarely gets a second look after 1 January.

John