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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Zeiss 8x30B Oberkochen / 8x30 BGAT*P and 8x20 BGAT*P Dialyt's (1 Viewer)

Hello,

I took my 8x30 BGAT*P from the cupboard and looked over garden behind my block of flats. It felt really good in the hand and comfortable with my glasses on or off. With the winter sun low on the horizon, there were some problems eith internal reflections but moving it a little way from the sun, the view was first rate.
This binocular may not be a match for current models, especially in colour rendition compared to the Victory FL line, but is well suited to the stadium the arena and my infrequent lofty perch at the opera.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:
 
james holdsworth said:
I did compare my 8x30B porro to another B, lower serial # version labelled ''made in germany'' and mine did have a wider field. I'm not sure if either version is multi-coated though - looking at the oculars and objectives, some elements appear entirely uncoated, reflecting quite white light.
Click to expand...

You've got the latest version, and that's a very nice binocular, very sharp in the centre with pinpoint star images with excellent handling. The mechanical quality of the 8x30B is spectacular, there simply aren't any binoculars made today that are as good as the Zeiss. The optical quality is also very good indeed, even by today's standards. I'm sure a Zeiss 8x30B with up-to-date coatings could compete with virtually every 8x30/32 on the market. Until the P-coating was introduced it ran circles around *every* roof prism binocular, it was so much better in every respect.

And yet, Zeiss stopped making it long before the P-coatings were introduced, simply because the great majority of customers went for the "more modern" roofs.

Hermann
 
Pinewood said:
I took my 8x30 BGAT*P from the cupboard and looked over garden behind my block of flats. It felt really good in the hand and comfortable with my glasses on or off. With the winter sun low on the horizon, there were some problems eith internal reflections but moving it a little way from the sun, the view was first rate.
Click to expand...

I've also still got an 8x30BGAT*P, and I fully agree. Good optics, very sharp in the centre, but some problems with internal reflections, transmission across the spectrum quite clearly not as good as many modern binoculars. Still, it's one of the nicer oldies, optically not quite as good as the Leica 8x32 BA, but a very nice pair in the field with a very smooth and precise focuser.

Hermann
 
james holdsworth said:
As to the 8x30 Dialyt being better optically than my 7x42 - well probably not in sum total. The 7 is brighter and a more pleasant, easier view - with less focus hunting. The 8 does seem a smidge sharper / more contrasty but [as mentioned] it may be newer coatings.
Click to expand...

I always felt the 8x30 was *very* sharp in the centre, but overall I prefer the view through the 7x42, it's so much easier on the eye.

BTW, I once did a fairly thorough comparison between my 8x30BGAT*P and a Zeiss 8x56B GAT*P - the 8x30 was clearly sharper in the centre, but the 8x56 had a much easier view. For daytime use I preferred the small and light 8x30 though.

Hermann
 
Hermann said:
I've also still got an 8x30BGAT*P, and I fully agree. Good optics, very sharp in the centre, but some problems with internal reflections, transmission across the spectrum quite clearly not as good as many modern binoculars. Still, it's one of the nicer oldies, optically not quite as good as the Leica 8x32 BA, but a very nice pair in the field with a very smooth and precise focuser.

Hermann
Click to expand...

I know the Leica 8x32BN, which has many virtues: waterproof, better control of reflections, perhaps a little sharper. Nevertheless, the 8x30 Classic is just friendlier.
You wrote about the optical qualities of the 7x42 Dialyt and I am in agreement. The focussing may be a little slow, and the latest HD, Fl, ED, etc. glasses give better colour rendition but the Dialyt is just a pleasure to use. I guess that its longer focal length minimises chromatic aberration, as well as FL glass does.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:
 
Pinewood said:
I know the Leica 8x32BN, which has many virtues: waterproof, better control of reflections, perhaps a little sharper. Nevertheless, the 8x30 Classic is just friendlier.
You wrote about the optical qualities of the 7x42 Dialyt and I am in agreement. The focussing may be a little slow, and the latest HD, Fl, ED, etc. glasses give better colour rendition but the Dialyt is just a pleasure to use. I guess that its longer focal length minimises chromatic aberration, as well as FL glass does.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:
Click to expand...

To me, the 8x30 has less CA than the 7x42. While the 8x30 has none centrally and very, very little at the edge [and very diffuse], the 7x42 shows a tiny bit a few degrees off centre and moderate amounts at the edge, fairly bright.

The 8x30 also has less lateral colour and [to me] more neutral whiteness.

Yes, the 8x30 shows some flare at the upper and / or lower parts of the FOV , but not in bright sun - it tends to be in bright overcast. Looking closely at the exit pupils, you can see a thin band of illumination but I can't tell what is causing it, perhaps a bit of reflective metal within the housing.

Overall, both the 8x30 and 7x42 are very enjoyable, with different attributes. The 7 is beautifully bright with rich colours, sharp with a huge FOV, current alpha level glare control and great sweetspot while the 8 is exceptionally compact, very sharp, very colour neutral with a super clean view due to low aberrations. Very pleased with both.
 
james holdsworth said:
I recently acquired three new Zeiss bins, at least new to me. Here is a brief review of all three....

Zeiss 8x30B Oberkochen - near mint, almost unmarked, this seems a late version [serial #935XXX] marked ''made in west germany'' and lug attachments on the body rather than the hinge.

Jewel-like build quality, absolutely beautiful fit and finish and appearance, tiny for a 8x30, nestles nicely in the palm of your hand.

The view is superb for an older porro. Wonderful sharpness, good contrast, fairly wide field, only a trace of warmth to the colour cast, great 3D view and sense of depth. Big sweetspot with very good edges. Transmission [as would be expected] isn't great, probably in the 75-80% range, but the image is gorgeous in most lighting conditions. Almost no CA. Immensely satisfying to look through, handle and look at - could very well become one of my all-time favourites.

I'm not likely to lug these jewels into the field much but they are very nice just sitting on a shelf over my desk, where I can look at their Zeiss-ness ;]
Click to expand...

James,

I know I'm a little late to this thread, but I just joined Bird Forum.

I love the Zeiss Oberkochen's. I own a pair of 10X50's and a pair of 15X60's and couldn't agree more with your assessment. Both are superb, but I prefer the 10X50's for birding. Though 10X, the 7.4° field make them a pleasure to handhold. I have not used the 8X30's but can only imagine how nice they are. Here is a cross-sectional of them:
http://doublestarobserver.com/pics/Zeiss 8 X 30.jpg

My pairs:
 

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PJ Anway said:
James,

I know I'm a little late to this thread, but I just joined Bird Forum.

I love the Zeiss Oberkochen's. I own a pair of 10X50's and a pair of 15X60's and couldn't agree more with your assessment. Both are superb, but I prefer the 10X50's for birding. Though 10X, the 7.4° field make them a pleasure to handhold. I have not used the 8X30's but can only imagine how nice they are. Here is a cross-sectional of them:
http://doublestarobserver.com/pics/Zeiss 8 X 30.jpg

My pairs:
Click to expand...


Very nice set! Do you find that you can use the 15x60 without a mount?
 
Hi James,

No, I find I need a mount for the 15X60's, pretty difficult to handhold. However, on a mount they are great for birding, but even more so for exploring the night sky.

PJ
 
Hi Lee,

The Cross Section diagram is from a Zeiss Binocular Brochure - 1964. It covers the 8X30, 8X30B, 7X50B, 8X50B, 10X50 and 15X60 binoculars and accessories. It also has some interesting facts, like - "1958, Zeiss introduces the first B-type binocular giving a maximum field of view to spectacle wearers." The "B" of course stands for "Brillenträger" - German for "eyeglass wearers".

It also states for the 10X50's and 15X60's: "The outstanding innovation on this glass is the use of a semi-apochromatic objective for maximum color correction." I contacted Zeiss to try and find out what this glass was and although they did reply, I was unable to get a definitive answer on the glass type. Zeiss marketing hype at the time called the 10X50's "the glass of the century". While the description is charming, it doesn't help with discovering the glass type.

PJ
 
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PJIt also states for the 10X50's and 15X60's: "The outstanding innovation on this glass is the use of a semi-apochromatic objective for maximum color correction." I contacted Zeiss to try and find out what this glass was and although they did reply said:
Possibly confusion arises from 'glass' being used for both the material for lenses and prisms and the binocular as a whole. Like in the German Fernglas. There's nothing unusual about the (Schott) glass used for Zeiss binoculars in comparison to other makes.

Renze
Click to expand...
 
james holdsworth said:
I recently acquired three new Zeiss bins, at least new to me. Here is a brief review of all three....

Zeiss 8x30B Oberkochen - near mint, almost unmarked, this seems a late version [serial #935XXX] marked ''made in west germany'' and lug attachments on the body rather than the hinge.

Jewel-like build quality, absolutely beautiful fit and finish and appearance, tiny for a 8x30, nestles nicely in the palm of your hand.

The view is superb for an older porro. Wonderful sharpness, good contrast, fairly wide field, only a trace of warmth to the colour cast, great 3D view and sense of depth. Big sweetspot with very good edges. Transmission [as would be expected] isn't great, probably in the 75-80% range, but the image is gorgeous in most lighting conditions. Almost no CA. Immensely satisfying to look through, handle and look at - could very well become one of my all-time favourites.
Click to expand...

I finally got hold of one these 8x30B's as well. I had been looking for one for years, this was the first one in good condition I found at an acceptable price. A bit earlier than yours (mine is #934xxx), in very good condition, only the dioptre adjustment is a bit too soft and the rubber eyecups need replacing. Collimation spot on, clear optics with no haze, almost neutral colour cast. Very good image quality, centre sharpness at least on a par with my 8x30BGAT*P, gradual fall-off towards the edges. Like I said before - this pair with modern coatings would give *any* of the modern roofs a run for their money, it really is that good. Despite the somewhat lower transmission and the lower contrast I prefer its handling and strongly three-dimensional image to that of the 8x30BGAT*P and the Leica 8x32BA, two phase-coated roofs I know very well.

I sent my 8x30B off to Wetzlar for a service. These old porros are well worth it. Not sure this particular pair really *needs* a service, but in my experience it's always better to send off such old pairs as long as Zeiss still have the technicians to service them. For once, these bins have a rubber seal between the eyepieces and the body to make sure dust and water doesn't get into the binocular that may need replacing. (1) Then that pair should be ready for the next 40 years ...

I'm very pleased.

Hermann

(1) For those who don't know about the rubber seal:
It's visible in the cross-section (http://doublestarobserver.com/pics/Zeiss 8 X 30.jpg), it's that red line between the eyepieces and the body. This gasket that is attached to the eyepiece and the body is a far more effective seal than a simple O-ring.
These seals really do work very well. A friend of mine once dropped his 15x60 in a small stream when trying to cross it. After retrieving it from a depth of about 40cm after a couple of minutes he found there was no water inside the binocular ...
 
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Hermann said:
I finally got hold of one these 8x30B's as well. I've been looking for one for years, this is the first one in good condition I found at an acceptable price. A bit earlier than yours (mine is #934xxx), in very good condition, only the dioptre adjustment is a bit too soft and the rubber eyecups need replacing. Collimation spot on, clear optics with no haze, almost neutral colour cast. Very good image quality, centre sharpness at least on a par with my 8x30BGAT*P, gradual fall-off towards the edges. Like I said before - this pair with modern coatings would give *any* of the modern roofs a run for their money, it really is that good. Despite the somewhat lower transmission and the lower contrast I prefer its handling and strongly three-dimensional image to that of the 8x30BGAT*P and the Leica 8x32BA, two phase-coated roofs I know very well.

I sent my 8x30B off to Wetzlar for a service. These old porros are well worth it. Not sure this particular pair really *needs* a service, but in my experience it's always better to send off such old pairs as long as Zeiss still have the technicians to service them. For once, these bins have a rubber seal between the eyepieces and the body to make sure dust and water doesn't get into the binocular that may need replacing. (1) Then that pair should be ready for the next 40 years ...

I'm very pleased.

Hermann

(1) For those who don't know about the rubber seal:
It's visible in the cross-section (http://doublestarobserver.com/pics/Zeiss 8 X 30.jpg), it's that red line between the eyepieces and the body. This gasket that is attached to the eyepiece and the body is a far more effective seal than a simple O-ring.
These seals really do work very well. A friend of mine once dropped his 15x60 in a small stream when trying to cross it. After retrieving it from a depth of about 40cm after a couple of minutes he found there was no water inside the binocular ...
Click to expand...

Nice. One of the few things that I agree with Dennis is the ease of view of a good porro, just so uncomplicated that your eye has very little work to do, just enjoy the view.

Mine is so nice that I'm reluctant to take it into the field much, mostly backyard glassing but its good to know they are so robust.
 
The 8x30 Porro is a great binocular and when new as close to waterproof as any Porro ever made thanks to gaskets on the focusing system. They do however fog up over time, it seems to be a problem with the internal grease sweating a cloudy gas onto the internals.
 
Simon S said:
The 8x30 Porro is a great binocular and when new as close to waterproof as any Porro ever made thanks to gaskets on the focusing system. They do however fog up over time, it seems to be a problem with the internal grease sweating a cloudy gas onto the internals.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that's what happens. I think it's mainly the older porros that suffer from this problem. I've seen 15x60's from the 1970's that had never been back to Zeiss and were not fogged up.

BTW, I believe Zeiss are aware of this problem and deal with the source when a pair comes in for a cleaning. In the early 1990's I sent my father-in-law's 10x50 to Wetzlar for a service. The pair is from 1960, it had been dropped and was also fogged up. When I talked to the technician on the phone, I mentioned the fogging. He replied that it shouldn't happen again. It didn't, the pair is still crystal-clear. My own 8x50B also didn't fog up again after a cleaning in Wetzlar some 20 years ago.

Interesting stuff.

Hermann
 
I have the P versions of the 30mm and 42mm. I was unaware of the tiny 8x20 family member. Would love to try that one. You have some interesting glass there.
 
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