Beginner compact Binoculars advice - Nikon / Opticron / Minox (1 Viewer)

[w00x]

Hi everyone,

I was looking to purchase a set of budget compact binoculars for when I go hiking in the mountains or city exploring (when this is possible again).

Initially, I was looking at the very compact models (Opticron T4 8x25, Opticron Taiga 8x25, Minox BV 8x25, etc.), so I can carry them easily in the backpack, but decided to bump up the size/class a bit in order to get better quality of the image and build.

I would like it to have a good build quality, since I don't plan on changing it anytime soon. I also don't like overly fuzzy images, so sharpness is a requirement. I also want it to be fairly compact so it can be carried in a hiking backpack or a woman's purse.

I think I narrowed it down to the following models:

Opticron Savanna R 8x33
MINOX Xlite 8x34 (80408167)
Nikon PROSTAFF 7S 8X30

All within the 150 EUR range.

Unfortunately I have no way of comparing them so I have to rely on reviews, personal opinions and place the order online.

Any thoughts on the three will be appreciated. Any suggestions for similar models will be appreciated as well, but please keep in mind that now that Brexit is a thing, the choice is limited to stores within the EU and the choice may be limited.

 

[KC Foggin]

Hi there and a warm welcome to you from those of us on staff here at BirdForum
We're glad you found us and please join in wherever you like.

 

[yarrellii]

Welcome to the forum, I'm sure you'll get good advice.
Unfortunately I haven't tried the binoculars in your list.
For around 150 € I can wholeheartedly recommend the Kowa YF 8x30
They are light and a joy to use, the view is fantastic for the price, and in my experience the build quality is quite high, I've had mine for nearly three years in my car glovebox (a binocular killer due to extreme heat) and they still work fine.
Don't be put off by the "porro" style: they are contemporary binoculars with fine coatings and great ergonomics.

 

[Ted Y.]

Don't be put off by the "porro" style: they are contemporary binoculars with fine coatings and great ergonomics.

I concur.
Here more details, Kowa YF II 8x30

 

[BKoh]

I also want it to be fairly compact so it can be carried in a hiking backpack or a woman's purse.

I think I narrowed it down to the following models:

Opticron Savanna R 8x33
MINOX Xlite 8x34 (80408167)
Nikon PROSTAFF 7S 8X30

All within the 150 EUR range.

Nikon Prostaff 7S 8x30 has good reviews from Allbinos and Neil English. Main downside is narrow FOV (6.5°) for 8x30 class.

I own the Opticron Discovery WP PC 8x32. Tiny and light (400g). Fits in a large purse or cargo pants pocket. 7.5° FOV, optically decent, a bit of CA for high contrast situations. Mine developed some play in the focuser, sent it to Opticron, repaired under warranty. ED version costs a bit more, has 8° FOV, consider if budget allows.

Amazon allows easy returns, feel free to buy and try.

 

[w00x]

Thank you, everyone.

Such a nice and friendly community!

Welcome to the forum, I'm sure you'll get good advice.
Unfortunately I haven't tried the binoculars in your list.
For around 150 € I can wholeheartedly recommend the Kowa YF 8x30
They are light and a joy to use, the view is fantastic for the price, and in my experience the build quality is quite high, I've had mine for nearly three years in my car glovebox (a binocular killer due to extreme heat) and they still work fine.
Don't be put off by the "porro" style: they are contemporary binoculars with fine coatings and great ergonomics.

The only issue I have with porro binoculars is their size. They are far from compact and instead of shoving them somewhere and forgetting about them, I will need to organize my luggage around them, since they will easily be the largest item in the backpack/case. This will not help when traveling with only a carry-on either.

I browsed through the Kowa offerings and they do look very nice on the photos. Sturdy and premium looking. Unfortunately the compact-ish roof prism offerings are outside of my set price range. If I like the idea of using binoculars (I have never used a pair in my life. Maybe some cheap-o when I was a kid) I may upgrade to a more expensive pair and will consider the Kowa for sure. I like the green armor.

Nikon Prostaff 7S 8x30 has good reviews from Allbinos and Neil English. Main downside is narrow FOV (6.5°) for 8x30 class.

I own the Opticron Discovery WP PC 8x32. Tiny and light (400g). Fits in a large purse or cargo pants pocket. 7.5° FOV, optically decent, a bit of CA for high contrast situations. Mine developed some play in the focuser, sent it to Opticron, repaired under warranty. ED version costs a bit more, has 8° FOV, consider if budget allows.

Amazon allows easy returns, feel free to buy and try.

The Discovery WA ED 8х32 is 80 EUR more than the Savanna R 8x33. It looks great though. It's also smaller and lighter than the Savanna.
I wonder if the 80 EUR price difference is worth it.

Unfortunately I don't have a "local" Amazon so will be using a logistics service to order from the German one. This makes returns a little more tedious (and sometimes expensive) and not something I would like to bother with, unless there is a warranty issue.

 

[[email protected]]

At that budget I would recommend the Kowa YF 8x30 also since a porro will give you more value for your money. The only roof prism that I would even consider under $200 is the Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 and although pretty compact it is a little bigger than you wanted.

 

[qwerty5]

The Kowa YF is a great binocular. But you seem pretty set against them. You should also check out the Vortex Diamondback 8x32 or 8x28, even though they are slightly out of your price range.

 

[yarrellii]

The only issue I have with porro binoculars is their size. They are far from compact and instead of shoving them somewhere and forgetting about them, I will need to organize my luggage around them, since they will easily be the largest item in the backpack/case. This will not help when traveling with only a carry-on either.

I understand that traditional Porro prism binoculars have been bulkier at times (like the typical "grandpa's 7x50" almost everyone has at home). However, the Kowa YF (Leupold Yosemite and other incarnations of the same basic design) are a different story altogether. This is what I meant when I said that they are "contemporary" binoculars.
Yes, by definition a Porro (bar reverse porro like some smaller x24, x21, etc.) is always going to be wider than a comparable roof, because the objectives are spaced wider apart. This, however, creates an immersive 3D effect that not even a +2000 € roof can match. Anyway, even if you take into consideration that a porro is wider, have a look at this. I made a comparison for you to see, the Kowa YF 8x30 and some of the smallest 8x32 on offer in the two next steps (around 200-250 and around/over 300): the Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32 (which is really very short, shorter than my Zeiss Terra 8x25) and the Opticron Traveller 8x32. As a special guest, a Bresser Pirsch ED 8x32



Yes the Kowa is the widest, but not the tallest, and all in all, it's a pretty compact design. The Bresser, which is also quite compact, is taller than the Kowa, and so are the Sightron Bluesky and its siblings.
When it comes to weight, it's also within 15 - 20 grams of some of the lightest 8x32.
Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32: 445 g
Opticron Travller 8x32: 450 g
Kowa YF 8x32: 466 g
Not only is it very light but, due to the fact that it's a little wider, the weight is distributed across its body, resulting in a "less dense" feeling, and they feel even lighter than they are. With the strap on the neck, I think they probably feel the lightest of the pack.

However, if you leave all those pretty small 8x32 aside and compare the Kowa to a bigger 8x32 (still a compact binocular, but heftier at 580 g), the Swarovski EL SV 8x32, you are in for a surprise. Have a look in detail...



If you pile the EL on top of the YF... their dimensions are almost identical. The EL is taller than the widest part of the YF, only the eyecups of the YF protrude on the left of the EL, since it's a tad wider when on its side. And why is this relevant? For a very simple reason. You are concerned about the space the binoculars are going to take out in your luggage, but it turns out that the YF don't take more space than the EL (or any of my other 8x32, for that matter). A few years ago I had a Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 (I guess a similar size as the Prostaff 7), I really like it, but I prefer its relative the Opticron. However, I LOVE the case that came with the Monarch 7. So much so, that I kept it, it's my favourite case and the one I use for all my 8x32, the Swaro, the Opticron, etc. Behold:

Simply turn the Kowa 90º and you can carry it in the same case (which means, it takes the same space in your back pack, and you can wear it on your belt if you like).



So, while I encourage you to try and look what best suits your needs, as you can see, the 8x30 YF is not really much larger (if at all) than some 8x32 roofs, and in fact you can even use the case that came with a 8x30 Monarch 7. So, within the 150 € I woul still consider it.

As for the Opticron Discovery 8x32, I had it some years ago, and to be honest, I had a bad experience, the poor thing just crumbled apart with use, I sent it to Opticron but to no avail. Other forum members probably have other stories, but mine with the Discovery is not a good one considering the price, back then I think I paid 220-240 €, more than what I paid for a 2nd hand 8x30 Monarch 7 or the Opticron Traveller, any of which simply trounce the Discovery.

I don't know about the prices where you live, but the Diamondback HD 8x32 are a real value monster, especially at the prices people get them on the US. I was lucky enough to find a 2nd hand unit for less than 200 €, maybe if you shop around with a little patience, you can score one at a good price. I haven't compared the Diamondback and the Kowa, but IIRC there was a forum member who did it, and the Vortex seemed the better pair (no surprise, given the 150 vs 250 € price difference).

Again, only giving you food for thought, to increase your chances of finding something you enjoy. Ah, as a last advice, I wouldn't rule out 2nd hand, you just have to find the a trusty seller, and this forum is not the worst place to start (I have found real bargains and extraordinary value thanks to fellow forum members).
Good luck!

 

[Ted Y.]

Simply turn the Kowa 90º and you can carry it in the same case (which means, it takes the same space in your back pack, and you can wear it on your belt if you like).

Already done by Kowa

Edit: "finally done by Kowa"

 

[w00x]

@yarrellii , thank you very much for taking the time and making the size comparison. They still seem 50% wider than the Vortex Diamondback.

I watched a video review of the Kowa YF in another topic on the forum and the reviewer showed the image through the lenses. It looked awesome. Crisp. I liked it very much, but the size is what stops me from ordering them right now. Them not being compact enough means that I will leave them at home more often than carry them with me, which is not what I want.

If I can get the same image quality that I saw in the Kowa video review from a roof prism binoculars, I will be very happy.

This here is the review in question:

Video and review of KOWA YF II 8x30

Good evening everybody. This Friday I'm talking about a small but high-performance binocular that I think has few rivals in its price range. It costs 159 euros and has a ten-year guarantee! I thank the Palude Brabbia Nature Reserve for the permission to shoot in the restricted area. Official...

www.birdforum.net

The Vortex Diamondback 8x32 looks very nice and fits in my criteria. Unfortunately I have trouble finding it for purchase. Last known price in the official distributer for my country was 215 EUR, which is something I am willing to do if I know that I am getting a much better quality product. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they can import it.

I just found one Diamondback 8x32 in a German store for 179 EUR which is 20 EUR more than I can get the Kowa YF 8x30 for. I guess for this price it's worth it over the models I was considering initially?

If I consider the Diamondback, I go into an entirely different price category (150-250 EUR), where other models become an option. Before I know it, I will be in the 500 EUR range and I started from the Sub 100 EUR models.

I am not at all opposed to second hand models, but unfortunately there are no options in my country...

 

[yarrellii]

Already done by Kowa

Wow, I didn't know the new version came with a well thought out case. However, i must say I did that before the new version came out, so actually Kowa copied what I was doing! ... so I'd say "finally done by Kowa" Just joking, but seriously, this is great, because the case on the original YF was really lousy, appalling. However, I don't know if that justifies the price increase from 129 to 159 € (in the Kowa subforum there was a discussion whether or not the mew YF had any optical improvement, and apparently it doesn't, do a new and useful case is at least a good piece of news).

 

[Ted Y.]

"finally done by Kowa"

Edit: "finally done by Kowa"

I edited the message. Cannot insert the quote in it, just the words.

 

[Ted Y.]

Hi w00x,

FYI, just in case, binocular USD100 and transport USD15.92
I do not know about customs fees/taxes.

View attachment 1426818

I have no dog in this hunt.

 

[Ruub Gomez]

-Svbony sv202 8x32 ED
-Pentax Papilio 6,5x21 (or 8,5x21)

Both nice and clear, each with its own strengths. Both within your budget. For me Svbony is the best choice (except for very close focus which is 50 cm for Papilio and 2m for Svbony).

 

[w00x]

@Ted Y. Thank you for the tip, but dealing with import customs and taxes will make them about the same price (or higher) as I would get when ordering directly from Kowa in Europe, sans the tedious warranty procedure if need be.

@Ruub Gomez Thanks for the tip on the SvBony SV202 8x32. It seems that it's highly regarded.

I made a little more research on the prices and availability and within my new (for now) budget of 250 EUR, the choices are:

Opticron Discovery ED 8x32 - 230 EUR
Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32 - 230 EUR
KOWA SV II 8X32 - 250 EUR
KOWA YF II SERIES 8x30 - 160 EUR
Hawke Endurance ED 8x32 - for which I have still not checked the price with the official distributer but it's around 230-250 EUR.
And the surprising entry
SvBony SV202 8x32 ED - 110 EUR.

It seems that the SbBony has the best build materials, regardless of it having the lowest price of the bunch. By a lot. The only thing worrying me is the QC and the very limited (non existent) warranty.

From the above list, does anyone have clear losers that I should exclude?
Has anyone had the chance to test and compare any of the models?

Unfortunately I can not order, test and return any of those models. If I order it, I have to keep it.

I very much liked the GPO Passion ED 8x32 and the Opticron Traveler, but I want to see whether I will use the binoculars first, before spending so much money on a pair. 380 EUR is currently past my psychological spending barrier for a first pair of binoculars.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to give tips and suggestions!

 

[Rg548]

My advice, with that budget, is to go to a reputable dealer, NOT ebay, and buy warranted second hand.
You will get a far better bino for your money.
If you do not end up using them, or perhaps wish to upgrade, you will lose very little, or nothing at all.
Have a look at Ace Optics as an example of second hand optics, I'm sure they ship internationally, but ther are plenty of other dealers too.
You will get a noticeable difference in quality for the same budget.
Not a lot to lose really!!
Then save up for some better ones if you feel the need, and by then you will have a better idea of which magnification you prefer, 7, 8 or 10, roof or porro design, and what suits your hand/face etc.

 

[leonardo_simon]

My advice, with that budget, is to go to a reputable dealer, NOT ebay, and buy warranted second hand.
You will get a far better bino for your money.
If you do not end up using them, or perhaps wish to upgrade, you will lose very little, or nothing at all.
Have a look at Ace Optics as an example of second hand optics, I'm sure they ship internationally, but ther are plenty of other dealers too.
You will get a noticeable difference in quality for the same budget.
Not a lot to lose really!!
Then save up for some better ones if you feel the need, and by then you will have a better idea of which magnification you prefer, 7, 8 or 10, roof or porro design, and what suits your hand/face etc.

Yes, I agree

 

[Ruub Gomez]

SvBony SV202 8x32 ED - 110 EUR.

It seems that the SbBony has the best build materials, regardless of it having the lowest price of the bunch. By a lot. The only thing worrying me is the QC and the very limited (non existent) warranty.

Yes you may encounter a QC issue, but from my experience I can testify that Svbony customer support deals with a reported issue swiftly, friendly and -most important- satisfyingly.

 

[w00x]

My advice, with that budget, is to go to a reputable dealer, NOT ebay, and buy warranted second hand.
You will get a far better bino for your money.
If you do not end up using them, or perhaps wish to upgrade, you will lose very little, or nothing at all.
Have a look at Ace Optics as an example of second hand optics, I'm sure they ship internationally, but ther are plenty of other dealers too.
You will get a noticeable difference in quality for the same budget.
Not a lot to lose really!!
Then save up for some better ones if you feel the need, and by then you will have a better idea of which magnification you prefer, 7, 8 or 10, roof or porro design, and what suits your hand/face etc.

I completely agree and this is something that I would usually do.
I was not aware that there are second-hand binoculars being sold by stores. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of options for a reputable dealer selling second hand binoculars and am limited to the normal second hand market, which in my country is non-existent. So my only option is to purchase a new pair.

I checked out Ace Optics, but they don't have any second hand pairs that fit my criteria and are located in the UK, which will be an issue with the imports. My choice would have been so much bigger if Brexit was not a thing, but unfortunately it is and I have to work with the limited choice this presents me with.

I guess it has to be a trial and error thing... I went through this route with drones and I went through this route with headphones, where I had to start from somewhere and get a feel of what I like and what I would like to change.

Yes you may encounter a QC issue, but from my experience I can testify that Svbony customer support deals with a reported issue swiftly, friendly and -most important- satisfyingly.

Where did you purchase from? I am looking at importing directly from their Chinese store.