Can that bird be considered "wild"? (2 Viewers)

[condor1992]

A week ago, I undertook a very exhausting trip to see a Lady Amherst's pheasant near Flitwick. The trip was succesfull- I have great photos of it. But there is a problem.
I always wanted to see 'wild' birds, not captive ones or anything. With that pheasant, I have no trouble with its introduced status and also have no trouble with it being 'wild'- that population was introduced in the 19th Century and is now down to a single male, which is so elusive I am not surprised at all that it was not found sooner.
I wanted to see a Lady Amherst's pheasant since the time when the Collins complete photographic guide to British Birds was brand new. But there is another bird which falls into the same category.
I wanted to see wood ducks forever. Obviously I can't just go to the US, because I am a student. In my opinion, the wood duck is the prettiest duck in the world, surpassing even the mandarin duck. I got very happy when I found out that Regent's Park has some wood ducks (as does St James's park), but can they really be considered 'wild', ie can they freely leave and roam about the place? I know the pelicans can, but nevertheless. And I know that Regent's has a mandarin pair which can roam about, too.
And what about Kew Gardens's golden pheasants, perhaps the last in the UK? Are they 'wild-introduced', or what would be defined as 'captive'?

 

[Mike Crawley]

I haven’t researched this but I was under the impression that the Lady Amherst’s Pheasant couldn’t be a wild bird, for the reasons you allude to in your preamble (down to a single male quite a few years ago). IIRC this final male hasn’t been seen for a couple of years.
Happy to listen to any suggestions why this bird might be wild.

Equally I doubt any Wood Ducks are wild. Although they may form a self sustaining population eventually.

Since the last male Golden Pheasant disappeared in north Norfolk I don’t think any others are wild, although I was unaware of the group you mention.

 

[Steve Lister]

The Lady Amherst's is generally thought to be a recent release or escape and I would not think it was tickable as 'wild'.

Wood Ducks are a very common species in wildfowl collections and escape frequently. There is a chance that proper wild birds from America could (have?) occurred but at the moment none are accepted as anything other than of captive or unknown origin.

I have heard that there is still a surviving Category C population of Golden Pheasants somewhere in north Suffolk, not far from Thetford. Otherwise a bit like Wood Ducks, if you see one it will be an escape or maybe release.

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

The bottom line is, your list, your rules. However, the situation with the species you list is as follows, AFAIK
Lady A - apparently extirpated as a British species; the current male is however in the former range, so if I was keen to see one in the U.K. I would see this one, but I would not count it on MY global list.
Wood Duck - only on category E, but I would consider twitching any possible vagrants, in case of a category A update, or follow up any feral breeding reports in case of an upgrade to C; neither seem likely at present.
Golden Pheasant - probably still present at some sites in East Anglia and tickable if you can find them. I suspect that birds at Kew receive too much supplementary feeding to be tickable.
Just to emphasise, these are only my thoughts; you need to decide how important your “list” is to you; there are certainly unlistable birds on my list which remain highly memorable, such as an escaped African Grey Parrot over my garden, or the Dunsop Bridge Eagle Owl chicks!

 

[condor1992]

For the wood duck, I didn't mean a wild vagrant (in my opinion not possible at all), but a 'wild' bird on the same level as a mandarin duck, not captive with its wings clipped or anything. Nothing more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the wood ducks at Regent do not appear to have their wings clipped and as such can be considered the same as the parrots in Hyde park, right?
The situation with the Lady A reminds me on the furor around a rare goose many years ago (forgot what species it was, but do remember it is listed in the Collins Bird guide as a genuine vagrant). Listed on ebird as a known or suspected escape, but many birdwatchers doubt that version because it was eg unringed, appeared during autumn migration and vanished during spring migration, in short, behaved exactly like a wild bird, and they believe it is a wild bird, as do I. Whenever a baikal teal appears, it is listed as an escape. Despite that, many birdwatchers are sure that what they see is a wild bird.
Obviously, there cannot be any hard proof for the pheasant (migration is obvious proof in my eyes, but not applicable here), but the location overlapping with the former range and the extreme elusiveness of the species all make it likely. The last male was in private lands with no public access where a remnant could have persisted long after the male died. Same with the Flitwick one- the area is surrounded by private woods where it could have hunkered down. Ultimately it boils down to what you believe- today I saw reports of a gyrfalcon in Thetford and immediately thought escape, for obvious reasons. And at the same time, the pheasant makes me think it is from the original population.
In regards to the Kew pheasants, the things are so elusive that when I contacted the gardens asking about them they said they hadn't encountered them for many months (despite them being seen ever so often). If they are fed, it would be along with other birds that live there, such as robins and warblers.
A while back, yellow-collared lovebirds escaped from an aviary in Spain. They have now established a feral population in the area and may have started breeding, making them definitely 'tickable' in my eyes

 

[Butty]

Is there actually 'information' that you require? It seems rather that your mind is already made up.

 

[condor1992]

It is about the Lady A pheasant (definitely 'wild'). It isn't about the wood duck, which is the purpose of the question

 

[Mono]

The Lady Amherst's pheasant is wild in the sense that it is not being given supplementary food nor is it being kept in at night, it's not someone's pet.

But it isn't wild in the sense that it has been born in the wild to parents that they themselves were born in the wild. It has been breed in captivity and then released or escaped.

There was a self-sustaining population of Lady Amherst's pheasant but that is thought to have met its end. The current bird is not from that population.

But as is often said your list, your rules.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

The Lady A is a recent release/escape and does not belong to the once self-sustaining population released a century or so ago. ❌

Golden Pheasant is very occasionally seen still in N. Suffolk, all are thought to relate to recently released/escaped birds. ❌

The Gyr Falcon is a recent escape, bearing jesses. ❌

The Kew Golden Pheasants are released birds, for that reason they are not included on the London list. ❌

There are no accepted records of genuine migrant Wood Ducks in the UK (it ‘may’ have occurred but none so far have given the BOURC enough confidence to move it to Cat A as a natuarally occurring vagrant.) ❌

Mandarin has been accepted as a released/escaped and subsequently self-sustaining naturalised species for some decades now, though recent escapes/released birds occur too. ✅

All of the above species often live as ‘wild’ in the UK once they have escaped/been released but none are actually tickable on any sort of comparative list, other than Gyr Falcon which does occur once or twice a year as a genuine vagrant. ✅

 

[Mono]

Is it a case in some people eyes that once birds get that "self sustaining population" or "acceptable vagrant" tick then everything becomes tickable.

Once the first vagrant Wood Duck gets accepted then people will be ticking every duck pond in the land.

The niceties of when and where go out the window when it is just a tick on a list.

 

[Owene]

We have a released colony of wood ducks in south wales that seem to be breeding on the canals in gwent. The release site and releaser being established. Don't think they've got to the chicks of 'wild' born parents yet let alone official self sustaining status (probably never will) but i'm sure it's not a unique situation in the UK

 

[Farnboro John]

Is it a case in some people eyes that once birds get that "self sustaining population" or "acceptable vagrant" tick then everything becomes tickable.

Once the first vagrant Wood Duck gets accepted then people will be ticking every duck pond in the land.

The niceties of when and where go out the window when it is just a tick on a list.

All the evidence I've seen on here suggests not. Birds (especially vagrant wildfowl) that come to bread, have half a wing or a lot of bling continue to be rejected by normal birders and twitchers.

Had the Cornish "in off" Wood Ducks stayed I'd have been down there but most of the recent records haven't caused me so much as a twitch where I sit on the sofa.

John

 

[Farnboro John]

The Lady Amherst's pheasant is wild in the sense that it is not being given supplementary food nor is it being kept in at night, it's not someone's pet.

But it isn't wild in the sense that it has been born in the wild to parents that they themselves were born in the wild. It has been breed in captivity and then released or escaped.

There was a self-sustaining population of Lady Amherst's pheasant but that is thought to have met its end. The current bird is not from that population.

But as is often said your list, your rules.

Are we sure it's not getting supplementary feeding?

John

 

[condor1992]

I am 100% sure that pheasant is 'wild' and is from the Bedfordshire population. I have not seen any evidence to say otherwise other than simple skepticism.
Regarding wood ducks, as I've said before I assess a vagrant one to be close to 0%, but was just curious if anyone knew anything about the Regent's park ducks and if they are free to move and fly around.

 

[Butty]

I am 100% sure that pheasant is 'wild' . . . I have not seen any evidence to say otherwise other than simple skepticism.
. . . if they are free to move and fly around.

Purely my guess, but... I suspect you're not in the 'Information Wanted' forum because you want information - but because you want to be told it's ok to tick the things that you've already decided you are going to tick.

 

[Mono]

The UK population was down to a single male bird in 2008, it was last recorded in 2016.

So, regarding the current bird that gives us three possibilities...
1) The single male bird has hung on for the past 7 years, alluding all observation. It now would be at least 14 years old, the longevity in the wild is 7-12 years. So whilst it being alive is in the realms of possibility the chance of it remaining unobserved is slight.
2) The self-sustaining population has persisted to the present day, either hidden (over the fence at Millbrook) or actively suppressed or both. The current bird has escaped from the hidden population. This story requires Area 51 levels of conspiracy to be at all plausible.
3) A new bird has been released at the site. Either as a wind-up, as a money making scheme or for some other reason. The birds are readily and cheaply available in the UK and the history of the site is well known amongst birders. This strikes me as the most plausible by far.

I would interested what makes you "100%" sure the bird is wild.

 

[condor1992]

Purely my guess, but... I suspect you're not in the 'Information Wanted' forum because you want information - but because you want to be told it's ok to tick the things that you've already decided you are going to tick.

I have asked about the wood duck, not the pheasant

 

[condor1992]

The UK population was down to a single male bird in 2008, it was last recorded in 2016.

So, regarding the current bird that gives us three possibilities...
1) The single male bird has hung on for the past 7 years, alluding all observation. It now would be at least 14 years old, the longevity in the wild is 7-12 years. So whilst it being alive is in the realms of possibility the chance of it remaining unobserved is slight.
2) The self-sustaining population has persisted to the present day, either hidden (over the fence at Millbrook) or actively suppressed or both. The current bird has escaped from the hidden population. This story requires Area 51 levels of conspiracy to be at all plausible.
3) A new bird has been released at the site. Either as a wind-up, as a money making scheme or for some other reason. The birds are readily and cheaply available in the UK and the history of the site is well known amongst birders. This strikes me as the most plausible by far.

I would interested what makes you "100%" sure the bird is wild.

1) Multiple sources reported that the Millbrook male was over to 20 years old before it died, eg Where to see the last Lady Amherst’s Pheasant | Bedfordshire Bird Club. This also hints at very old age Finding the last Lady Amherst's .The same source also disproves your claim that the poulation was down to a single male in 2008. As I stated, given the Flitwick locality, the specific details of that forest (monstrous undergrowth) as well as the extreme elusiveness of the bird (people spent three hours looking in the same area and never saw it. In a tiny strip of wood) makes it absolutely not unexpected in my eyes that the bird could have eluded observation for so long. A factor suggested for the apparent 3 to 1 ratio of males to females in the population was that females are extremely elusive. The male isn't a walk in the park, either.
2) Millbrook Proving Ground is a private location and is quite large. When the last Lady A pheasant was seen there was a problem with birders climbing the fence to see that male, which resulted in the police getting involved and the area being patrolled, and the location witheld for as long as possible. It isn't that big of a conspiracy. Red-backed shrike breeds in the UK as well, and yet the security around its location is watertight. As is the location of the last remaining native Lady's slipper orchid. And I personally am part of a 'conspiracy' of people who know where to find the UK's rarest orchid, the Serapias bergonii orchid, now down to a single plant. The location Bircham Tofts for Montagu's harrier never leaked until the female was killed in 2017. I could go on with examples. And yet these are conspicuous things. If that stayed a secret for so long, then keeping Lady A pheasants secret on a massive private stretch of land is significantly easier
3) There were no escapes or deliberate releases reported. I have observed the bird myself. The bird 'knew what it was doing', and it was so hard to see that I spent 1 hour and 30 minutes going up and down an area of wood that is 10 meters in width and 200m long. That is not the behaviour of a released bird in my opinion. I've seen enough of these crazy August pheasants to make up my opinion. The bird is also well versed with predators- our first view was it running at immense speed from a dog, so fast that I thought it was going to end up all the way at the start of the wood

 

[Butty]

the wood ducks at Regent do not appear to have their wings clipped and as such can be considered the same as the parrots in Hyde park, right?

Wrong. I don't know why you say that - unless you are going to tick wood ducks just because...

. . . they are free to move and fly around

- which your statements suggest that you are - and which you are certainly welcome to enjoy doing. But, if the 'Information Wanted' forum is to supply you with the information you want, you should give your ticking criteria clearly, so that people know what information you want.

 

[Mono]

In the links posted I can't see any reference to the bird being over 20 years old.

The oldest recorded Lady Amherst's pheasant in captivity is 19.6 years so I find it difficult to believe a wild bird would exceed this.